Topic: Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Offline Iblis

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937819
Another no-sense reply.
At least insult faith in some kind of context.

It was in context. I was satirising your adherence to religion, which can be used to drum up any justification for... well, just about anything. Obviously your god didn't find it funny. My god found it hilarious. Perhaps you would like to settle this in a holy war.

Reply #6750 Posted: May 19, 2009, 08:10:33 pm

Offline Tandoori

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Well, Flea, ya can't call him a one hit wonder.

Reply #6751 Posted: May 19, 2009, 08:14:48 pm

Offline swindle

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I've said it once, i'll say it again...

Iblis for Presidant.

Reply #6752 Posted: May 19, 2009, 08:47:19 pm
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Holy War it is.
Your God can go first.

Reply #6753 Posted: May 19, 2009, 09:07:04 pm

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937851
Holy War it is.
Your God can go first.


if your god does anything you win

or if you raise a valid or interesting point....

Reply #6754 Posted: May 19, 2009, 09:16:45 pm

Offline frog.

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Quote from: ™swindLe..;937842
I've said it once, i'll say it again...

Iblis for Presidant.

fuck that... the last thing we need is another president/PM when all he can do is dish out a speech.

Reply #6755 Posted: May 20, 2009, 03:49:29 am
pancakesrreal | Everyone of us is high but you

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;937854
or if you raise a valid or interesting point....
Your problem since the start, tbh - you've never taken my points (or any religious/faith-supporting persons points) as seriously as we've taken yours - goes for everybody in here to be honest. This thread should be renamed "The 'lets mock a sector of society in a bigoted way, except pretend that its not, then pat each other on the back about it' Thread".

I sincerely hope that the behaviour of people in this thread over time isn't reflective of society as a whole ... oh wait, thats right, I'm the only person in here who actually believes and is  willing to say anywhere, anytime, what I really think. I doubt any of you have the balls to get into an actual, real life debate with someone about anything that goes on in this thread*. I forget - is the term 'e-tough'?

*not including telling a Jehovahs Witness to fuck off; this act doesn't qualify.

Reply #6756 Posted: May 20, 2009, 07:33:23 am

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937958
I doubt any of you have the balls to get into an actual, real life debate with someone about anything that goes on in this thread*. I forget - is the term 'e-tough'?


I can understand your frustration and you've been on the receiving end of my posts at times too.

I have had debates about this topic many many times over the years, in real life, with people as diverse as true believers of different faiths, with people who 'study' religion, with Ministers and with Academics as well as Lay people. It is interesting to note that in these the language used wasn't abusive and at the end we agreed to disagree about certain things.

It's peculiar how we pick on our differences which in perspective are trivial when compared with our similarities.

Yes, I don't have much time for religion and I have made that known.
Now, for me, there is no sense flogging the dead horse which this thread seems to have become. we have had some good discussions in this thread, when we have been able.

I like many different types of people. There are things about my lifestyle and personal choices that others do not agree with, just as I don't agree with theirs, yet we still get along and can have rigorous (but civil) discussions about all manner of things.

That'll do for me at the moment.
You know my feelings, Flea and I know where you stand. That is a good thing.
Let's move on from here: see you in the music thread :eek:

Reply #6757 Posted: May 20, 2009, 07:55:23 am
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline Nostargate

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Without going into a debate about religion itself.......

Religion and science cannot be compared.
Religion itself is based on ones faith to either a deity or cause.
Science is based of the observation and recording of interaction and fact.

I personally have many friends of varying religions, mainly christian, muslim, and a hindu, i choose not to enter debates on religion with them, i understand their dedication to their faith and respect that, no more needs to be said about it to them.

Reply #6758 Posted: May 20, 2009, 08:20:23 am

Offline cobra

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937958
Your problem since the start, tbh - you've never taken my points (or any religious/faith-supporting persons points) as seriously as we've taken yours


can you bullet point your points because i think i missed them (in all seriousness)

I would also seem that you have not taken the points raised here seriously, you have just ignored them as they are inconsistant with your beliefs, the points raised about the jesus myth being based on an earlier myth and created for political reasons <- your response "something about many gods"

Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937958

- goes for everybody in here to be honest. This thread should be renamed "The 'lets mock a sector of society in a bigoted way, except pretend that its not, then pat each other on the back about it' Thread".


your belief system is an irrational superstition based belief system, it is tough to respect that especially when you believe that your religion should be taught in science classes as equal as the factual theory of evolution and the big bang

Quote from: ThaFleastyler;937958
oh wait, thats right, I'm the only person in here who actually believes and is  willing to say anywhere, anytime, what I really think. I doubt any of you have the balls to get into an actual, real life debate with someone about anything that goes on in this thread*. I forget - is the term 'e-tough'?


i dont think religious debates count as "etough", i would happly debate this with anyone but would never initiate a conversations as you christians seem to get ragey and abusive quite quickly

Reply #6759 Posted: May 20, 2009, 08:31:28 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: cobra;937976
your belief system is an irrational superstition based belief system, it is tough to respect that especially when you believe that your religion should be taught in science classes as equal as the factual theory of evolution and the big bang
Please show me where I said that religion should be taught in a science class.
By the way, I also tried to explain that I'm not religious ...

... actually, have you EVER read anything I wrote?! I mean ... admit it, you're just pissy because you couldn't change my mind, right?!

ffs :disappoin



On second thought, just go back to patting yourself on the back - "Yay, I think I'm awesome because I didn't read anything that guy wrote and dismissed all of it offhand, while putting him in a tidy little box with every other cliche belief I could think of!" The problem with this thread has always been that there are a group of people who aren't interested in actual discussion, but rather pushing their bigoted beliefs and insulting the freedom of thought of other people - to the point that their behaviour has driven away anyone who wanted to actually debate anything. The fact that we can have a thread titled Anti-Religion Thread in these forums is testament to the very bigoted opinions of a number of posters who - whether they would admit it or not - wouldn't have the BALLS to actually back their statements in real life. I would be proud of any one of you who would go to a church and yell at a preacher, or protest outside a church service, or try to teach science in a religious class - at least you were actually DOING SOMETHING.

In fact, as I've said before: I'm done - I'm just gonna pretend this thread doesn't exist, and go back to presenting myself honestly in all areas of my life and backing my statements and beliefs. Have fun enjoying your Religion vs Science thread, ignorant/bigoted science guys!

Reply #6760 Posted: May 20, 2009, 09:27:36 am

Offline Arnifix

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Flea, if we were hanging IRL there would be no time for religious debate. There are far more exciting and interesting things we could be doing with our mouths.

Like drinking beer.

Reply #6761 Posted: May 20, 2009, 01:16:51 pm

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: Arnifix;938077
Flea, if we were hanging IRL there would be no time for religious debate. There are far more exciting and interesting things we could be doing with our mouths.

Like drinking beer.

Agreed :D

Reply #6762 Posted: May 20, 2009, 01:48:02 pm

Offline nick247

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at the least the religious are not as illogical as the people who like rap music

Reply #6763 Posted: May 20, 2009, 04:54:51 pm

Offline philo-sofa

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;938001

In fact, as I've said before: I'm done - I'm just gonna pretend this thread doesn't exist, and go back to presenting myself honestly in all areas of my life and backing my statements and beliefs. Have fun enjoying your Religion vs Science thread, ignorant/bigoted science guys!


Your contributions will be missed :/

Reply #6764 Posted: May 20, 2009, 05:02:52 pm

Offline HunHunter

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Missing link found Science wins

Reply #6765 Posted: May 20, 2009, 06:39:25 pm

Offline KiLL3r

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farewell religion, it was a good try but eventually the truth always wins out

Reply #6766 Posted: May 20, 2009, 07:51:31 pm


Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: HunHunter;938206


Missing link found Science wins


Quote from: KiLL3r;938236
farewell religion, it was a good try but eventually the truth always wins out


Alright, I'll play the devil's advocate card: how exactly does this diminish religion?
It's been through many times of trial and tribulation and seems to always come out the other side.

Reply #6767 Posted: May 20, 2009, 07:59:23 pm
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline Tandoori

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Quote from: Ngati_Grim;938251

It's been through many times of trial and tribulation and seems to always come out the other side.


By overcoming common sense and reason, bugger a sound and plausible argument - let's continue to worship the zombie jew.

Reply #6768 Posted: May 20, 2009, 08:31:13 pm

Offline Iblis

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;938001
Please show me where I said that religion should be taught in a science class.
By the way, I also tried to explain that I'm not religious ...

... actually, have you EVER read anything I wrote?! I mean ... admit it, you're just pissy because you couldn't change my mind, right?!

ffs :disappoin



On second thought, just go back to patting yourself on the back - "Yay, I think I'm awesome because I didn't read anything that guy wrote and dismissed all of it offhand, while putting him in a tidy little box with every other cliche belief I could think of!" The problem with this thread has always been that there are a group of people who aren't interested in actual discussion, but rather pushing their bigoted beliefs and insulting the freedom of thought of other people - to the point that their behaviour has driven away anyone who wanted to actually debate anything. The fact that we can have a thread titled Anti-Religion Thread in these forums is testament to the very bigoted opinions of a number of posters who - whether they would admit it or not - wouldn't have the BALLS to actually back their statements in real life. I would be proud of any one of you who would go to a church and yell at a preacher, or protest outside a church service, or try to teach science in a religious class - at least you were actually DOING SOMETHING.

In fact, as I've said before: I'm done - I'm just gonna pretend this thread doesn't exist, and go back to presenting myself honestly in all areas of my life and backing my statements and beliefs. Have fun enjoying your Religion vs Science thread, ignorant/bigoted science guys!


I've had the balls on many occasions to let proselytisers know exactly how I feel about it. You know, the ones that wake you up on Saturday. Now, before you say that you weren't proselytising, you did choose to engage in this discussion. Which is exactly why I think you're just copping out now. I also am actively engaged in the tactic of subverting religious programming. You've already read some of it. Yes, that's right, I'm a HYPOCRITE. I preach. I preach doubt. I preach self-discovery, knowledge-seeking, and self-determination. I'm more than happy to be a perceived hypocrite to do what I think is right. But that's what religion forces people to do: it holds them at intellectual ransom with regard to denying it. If you preach like they do, you're a hypocrite. If you put your trust in science, you're a hypocrite because you have "faith". If you question their beliefs, you're a hypocrite for not respecting their personal choice. Religion is the ultimate confidence trick. "Heads I'm right, tails you're wrong."

 I think you have one thing wrong about me. I think you believe I'm trying to convert you. I'm not. I don't care if you believe in Bigfoot, UFOs, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I will treat you with the exact same abrasive skepticism that I would of someone who came in tossing around ridiculous conspiracy theories. By religious reasoning, people like me should be your best friend. We strengthen your 'faith'. If you can't handle being constantly challenged then I think your faith is just as baseless as I've implied. I have and will continue to be unabated by being constantly challenged by BOTH the religious and the agnostics. Yes, that's right, the agnostics. They're the ones who usually come in like hippies and try to find some muddy middle ground where we all essentially worship some abstract patchwork deity so we can all get along. They annoy me, too.

Reply #6769 Posted: May 20, 2009, 09:08:15 pm

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Quote from: Iblis;938293
I will treat you with the exact same abrasive skepticism that I would of someone who came in tossing around ridiculous conspiracy theories.
Your problem, summed up in 1 sentence (by you, no less - well done!)

You seem to think I don't want you challenging my faith - you couldn't be more wrong; would I really have bothered in this thread at all if I wanted to breeze through without any challenges? Have you actually read any of this thread? If you had, you'd see we probably have more in common than not - and yet you still go at me with personal attacks that simply undermine any intelligent point you could have made

In actual fact, my post was about the way in which people like you go about it - yourself and a couple of others here make your points from the perspective that you are 100% right and everyone else is a moronic buffoon. Hey, heres an idea: how about injecting a wee bit of humility or, heck, some common human decency into your posts?

My favourite thing though, about you guys, is this:
You complain high and low about "arrogant christians knocking on my door, wah wah wah" - and yet you're more arrogant about your position than they ever were ... except, of course, you do it anonymously on a message board, where they actually back themselves and go see you ... and not because they think you're an idiot, but because they actually care about you and think "man, if we're right and hes going to hell, shouldn't we do something?"

Anyways, as I said, I'm out - I'm not posting in this thread if any point I make is going to be dismissed offhand by an anonymous thinks-he-knows-it-all intent on not having an actual discussion.

Reply #6770 Posted: May 21, 2009, 09:40:07 am

Offline Iblis

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Quote from: ThaFleastyler;938450
Your problem, summed up in 1 sentence (by you, no less - well done!)

You seem to think I don't want you challenging my faith - you couldn't be more wrong; would I really have bothered in this thread at all if I wanted to breeze through without any challenges? Have you actually read any of this thread? If you had, you'd see we probably have more in common than not - and yet you still go at me with personal attacks that simply undermine any intelligent point you could have made

In actual fact, my post was about the way in which people like you go about it - yourself and a couple of others here make your points from the perspective that you are 100% right and everyone else is a moronic buffoon. Hey, heres an idea: how about injecting a wee bit of humility or, heck, some common human decency into your posts?

My favourite thing though, about you guys, is this:
You complain high and low about "arrogant christians knocking on my door, wah wah wah" - and yet you're more arrogant about your position than they ever were ... except, of course, you do it anonymously on a message board, where they actually back themselves and go see you ... and not because they think you're an idiot, but because they actually care about you and think "man, if we're right and hes going to hell, shouldn't we do something?"

Anyways, as I said, I'm out - I'm not posting in this thread if any point I make is going to be dismissed offhand by an anonymous thinks-he-knows-it-all intent on not having an actual discussion.

You say you're going to leave, but I don't believe you. I'm certain you'll still read this.

I don't get how that statement summed up my problem. I vociferously challenge your baseless stance on a 'big man in the sky'.

I assure you we have very little in common, and I'd like you to define what a personal attack is. It's hard to attack you personally without knowing anything about you. If I've implied that you're stupid/crazy, well, from where I stand that's what someone has to be to believe such nonsense. I'm fairly certain I made an obvious effort to focus on your belief and not you. If you cannot separate the two... well, so be it.

I "back my shit up" every day in real life, and not just on the internet. I may be just as arrogant as the door knockers(in my argument with them), but I didn't knock on their door to convince them god doesn't exist. Them thinking they need to help me be saved is FAR more arrogant than anything else I can think of. I doubt you'll understand that, and I don't expect you to.

The people who know me think I'm very humble, but not so humble I lack any confidence. I am immune to the tall-poppy syndrome. I do not allow people to to attack my confidence simply by telling me that if I show any, I must reek of arrogance. Those people allow themselves to be unjustly guilted and walked-over. It is refreshing to be free from that kind of emotional blackmail, but nice try.

From my point of view we are having an actual discussion, but you lack the stamina and conviction to see it through. You can accuse me of being a "know-it-all", and that's perfectly fine by me, you aren't the first, won't be the last, and if for some reason I am and are completely unaware of it, you are obviously terrible at making a clear case for me to see it.

Reply #6771 Posted: May 21, 2009, 06:39:30 pm

Offline Ngati_Grim

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Quote from: Iblis;938646
and I'd like you to define what a personal attack is.....you're stupid/crazy.... I'm fairly certain I made an obvious effort to focus on your belief and not you.... I doubt you'll understand that, and I don't expect you to..... but you lack the stamina and conviction to see it through.... you are obviously terrible at making a clear case for me to see it.


;)


You COULD try rereading this entire thread. Some of us have been engaging in 'discussion' for quite a while on this topic and every so often a 'new' contributor comes along asking questions that have been asked - and replied to - before.

In my opinion, it is like flogging a dead horse though.
I've made my position clear, and I've been abrasive at times. Most of the time, however, I try to be civil, no matter how strongly I disagree with someone else.

Reply #6772 Posted: May 22, 2009, 09:12:04 am
Recycle your red poppies, paint them white, and wear them throughout the year.

Offline SteddieEddie

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If there is intelligent design, how come I have hair around my asshole?

Reply #6773 Posted: May 22, 2009, 09:20:02 am

Offline ThaFleastyler

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Something for the dags to cling to :D

Reply #6774 Posted: May 22, 2009, 09:35:23 am