Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[SteddieEddie]

Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people.
  - Doris Egan

[Iblis]

http://www.nogod.org.nz/
Over $5k in just under a day. Fucking awesome.

[frog.]

whats the difference between these two groups again

[varkk]

whats the difference between these two groups again

Not much

[frog.]

lol - on a more serious note, how did the "God is omnipotent omnipresent omniscient" come about.

[Tiwaking!]

lol - on a more serious note, how did the "God is omnipotent omnipresent omniscient" come about.

So I've been in this thread from before the beginning (when it got merged) and Im pretty sure that this question has never been asked.

Hmm. Where do you start...

Theology: Is it bullshit?

Oddly enough the very basic nature of a God is simply this: It needs to be better than you in thought, word or deed and represent an absolute value of some kind.

This simple definition includes ALL Gods, but not demi-Gods or 'divine spirits' (Buddhist devas, Angels, Saints, etc)

The only important idea of the God is that it represents an absolute value. Wether the value is reprehensible (Loki, Set post syncretism, Malsumis), neutral (The Green Man, Coyote, Thanatos) or virtuous (Thor, Osiris, Tane-Mahuta)

However, once Gods start getting too big for their shoes is where the problems begin.

Without a suitable counterpart to their represented absolute value a Gods existence begings to show a lack of relevance.

This is where cognitive dissonance comes into play.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Yakob

First off:

The monotheistic deity known as God is NOT the God of Christianity, Judaism and Islam

Secondly:

The monotheistic deity known as God is NOT the first monotheistic deity

Thirdly:

Monotheistic deities do NOT have qualities which are fully, totally and only ascribed to the monotheistic deity known as God


What the hell are you on about?

The qualities which can be ascribed to God can and have been fathomed without the use of the Bible. In fact: The biblical book of Ecclesiaties (one of my favourites) written by King Solomon is NOT biblically based and is a summation of "what life is" as opposed to "life with God"

The qualities which can be ascribed to a God which creates everything, WITHOUT resorting to scripture are:

omnipotence - The God has no limits to its ability

omnipresence - The God has no limits to its spatial habitat

omniscience - The God has no limits to its knowledge

This is irrespective of whether God cares or does not care about its creations.


Without any one of these attributes, the God falls very short of its absolute value portfolio


So.....is Theology bullshit?

Yes and no.

IF you ascribe to a Mystery Cult then yes: Theology is bullshit. You cannot study something which, because of its very existence, is beyond your ability to study

Otherwise Theology is a perfectly acceptable field of study


(I have to get my last Atheist stab in)

Spoiler :

Its just that a Doctor of Medicine prescribes physical treatments and a Doctor of Theology administers fantasy

Can Gods Die?

Simply: Yes. There are many examples of Gods which have been killed, usually by virtuous human heroes but occasionally by other gods. Zeus for example killed his parents, the Titans.

You could say Gods die when their worshipers die

[KiLL3r]

Why don't you just kill yourself? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world?

Just because someone decides to believe in an afterlife doesn't mean they automaticly have to hate the life they have now.

what are you stupid, retarded or both?

why would i kill myself knowing theres nothing afterwards. god your a whinging asshole these days.

[cobra]

http://www.nogod.org.nz/
Over $5k in just under a day. Fucking awesome.

over $10K now

[AintNoMeInTeam]

im watching the closeup segment now. I think its hilarious when asking if there is a stigma about atheism, the host (his name eludes me) says in an aside to the rev. "with all due respect." If i were being interviewed, i would have challenged the host by asking him why he would feel the need to say that, unless identifying yourself as atheist would somehow be taken to be an insult to whoever the fuck she is..

too bad he didnt, would have got the point across far more clearly than his shit about rational enquiry.

[robbyx]

Also made me lol when she said "we welcome rational discussion".

[KiLL3r]

POKEMON IS THE DEVIL!

[nzr_hotsexgary]

lol - on a more serious note, how did the "God is omnipotent omnipresent omniscient" come about.

tl;dr of tiwaking's post:

The 3 O's are just a grossly oversimplified attempt to legitimise theism, despite the fact that a god that satisfies the 3 O's requirement is fatally distinct from any god advertised by any religion

[KiLL3r]

Just watching the news about the joseph and mary billboard. Cant believe how intolerant religious types are. One of these peace loving people has already defaced the billboard and the church leader is shocked that it was a church who commissioned the ad and not some devil worshipping atheists.

[AintNoMeInTeam]

a catholic church being annoyed with a protestant church?? now ive seen everything...

tbh, how can the catholic church be in denial about joseph sleeping with mary when they were married. at that time period, to state the contrary would have been absurd.

btw, i thought the billboard was gold. that guy used to be the vicar at St. Andrews in epsom when i used to go to church.


on another note, one thing ive never understood is that jesus is supposedly the prophet promised through the line of david (i.e. from joseph), but jesus isnt related to joseph at all... can anyone explain that to me?

[Bobyoby]

on another note, one thing ive never understood is that jesus is supposedly the prophet promised through the line of david (i.e. from joseph), but jesus isnt related to joseph at all... can anyone explain that to me?

Basicly christianity/religion is inconsistant and christians ripped that part out of the last testament and ignored it, so according to the last testament, jesus can't be the messiah at all

[KiLL3r]

on another note, one thing ive never understood is that jesus is supposedly the prophet promised through the line of david (i.e. from joseph), but jesus isnt related to joseph at all... can anyone explain that to me?

are you mad, it wouldn't be called a religion if it made sense

[cobra]

Just watching the news about the joseph and mary billboard. Cant believe how intolerant religious types are. One of these peace loving people has already defaced the billboard and the church leader is shocked that it was a church who commissioned the ad and not some devil worshipping atheists.

yeah - i love the atheist comment, see seemed to think that atheists are distilled evil or something

[KiLL3r]

yeah - i love the atheist comment, see seemed to think that atheists are distilled evil or something

i got the same impression. i doubt she even knows what an atheist is.

[cobra]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3174473/Man-cites-Bible-in-child-assault-prosecution

so am man beats his kid with a pipe, claims it is his god given right (literally) and the defense is:

 

.... said the incident was out of character for the man.

"He is a Christian man and believes firmly in traditional methods of discipline," he said.

i hate how "christian" is used in courts to say "this is a good man" - this is an unrepentant child beater that is how he should be treated

[nzr_hotsexgary]

If you look at different gospels they trace jesus heritage through his mother as well at some stage, or end up with a shorter family tree somehow (one gospel goes through 30 generations and another only does like 25 or some shit) but its not the details that matter, its how much jesus loves you want wants to kill you after you're dead

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3174473/Man-cites-Bible-in-child-assault-prosecution

so am man beats his kid with a pipe, claims it is his god given right (literally) and the defense is:

 

i hate how "christian" is used in courts to say "this is a good man" - this is an unrepentant child beater that is how he should be treated

At least he didn't scratch the kids eyes out and drown him, surely even religious types wouldn't be able to get away with something like that...

[Lone-Star]

Taken from "God is a Procrastinator"
The Sarcasm Society

The latest theo-scientific discussions around religion and the existence of God have produced fascinating results. The theory being proffered is that God is a procrastinator and keeps putting off revealing himself to mankind.

Though this new theory has gained popularity among a minor group, it has ruffled the feathers of both believers and atheists alike. The believers are enraged at the suggestion that God is less than perfect, and the atheists are afraid that there is a finally an argument they can’t win against when voicing their beliefs.

This issue has been recognized by World leaders as one of the most important topics of our time. Consequently, there is a meeting of intellectuals, scientist and World leaders being organized for next year, to be held in Copenhagen. The meeting is meant to resolve once-and-for-all the question of God and his existence. It has been decided that the final outcome of this meeting will be in the form of a non-binding agreement
among all nations.

[EnjoyTheSauce]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/sumerians_look_on_in_confusion_as

Gold^

[Iblis]

[Iblis]

[Tiwaking!]

It's important to realise, spirituality is huge for people, you need to think about others here, if you think their beliefs have no use in this world, think about this:

There is an old woman praying for her husband of 50 years who has recently passed away, through this process she can mourn her loss and take the first steps to move foward.

Now go and tell her, her praying is of no use.

I am reminded of a scene in Akira Kurosawa's "Shichinin no Samurai" where an old woman basically gives up on life because she has lost her entire family. One of the Samurai, Heihachi, tells her that there is a better place and she will see them again. Another Samurai, Kikuchiyo, flips out at him yelling "How do you know??" before storming out.

Its an incredibly powerful scene because Kikuchiyo is angry not due to any words, but because he feels useless to help. Nothing can change the past.

Spirituality is important, but not to the extent where one ignores physical reality. Spirituality provides hope when there is none.

"The universe speaks in many languages but only one voice ... It speaks in the language of hope"