The Official Formula 1 thread

[kilabee]

Seems a little harsh.Thought the problem might have been that he passed him on the next bend.Anywho its still making for a great close session.

A1GP however :disappoin

[Shasta]

Theyre supposed to wait til after the corner after the incident... eg after the corner at the end of the straight.

But i think they really only clarified this after the race (which is why everyone was being so careful at monza in the last race)


However as has been said... the race director told him twice it was ok...

At the time Hamilton made the move there WAS no "wait til after the next corner" rule. So you can't say "They're supposed to wait til after the corner after the incident" etc - because up until after that race, they were NOT supposed to wait until the next corner at all. They simply added that rule before Monza to ensure that no advantage of momentum etc could be carried from a failed move into the following corner. Hamilton followed the letter of the rules at Spa AS THEY WERE written until they were modified after his incident. Monza was the first race held using this NEW rule.

The clarified rule is a good idea. The way Hamilton had his win taken from him, or that he was even penalised at all, and that the result was changed hours after the race, are all bad. And wrong.

[Xt1ncT]

At the time Hamilton made the move there WAS no "wait til after the next corner" rule. So you can't say "They're supposed to wait til after the corner after the incident" etc - because up until after that race, they were NOT supposed to wait until the next corner at all. They simply added that rule before Monza to ensure that no advantage of momentum etc could be carried from a failed move into the following corner. Hamilton followed the letter of the rules at Spa AS THEY WERE written until they were modified after his incident. Monza was the first race held using this NEW rule.

The clarified rule is a good idea. The way Hamilton had his win taken from him, or that he was even penalised at all, and that the result was changed hours after the race, are all bad. And wrong.

Bugger.

I have to agree.

Damn that was hard.

[Zarkov]

Massa storms to Singapore GP pole

By Matt Beer    Saturday, September 27th 2008, 15:01 GMT

Felipe Massa in SingaporeFelipe Massa took pole for Formula One's first ever night race by a huge margin after a dominant performance in qualifying at Singapore.

The Ferrari driver already held provisional pole after his first run in Q3, but briefly lost the place to title rival Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) in the closing seconds.

However even as Hamilton crossed the line, Massa was already on course to comfortably beat his lap, setting new benchmarks in all three sectors as he lapped in 1:44.801 to take pole by 0.664 seconds.

Kimi Raikkonen took third in the second Ferrari, and like Hamilton the Finn survived some early scares to reach Q3, having been pushed down into the elimination zone in Q1 being leaping up to first place in the dying seconds. Hamilton only just hung on in Q2 as a scruffy lap left him on the bubble in 10th at the end of the segment.

Robert Kubica claimed fourth for BMW, ahead of Heikki Kovalainen in the second McLaren, with BMW's Nick Heidfeld completing the top six.

Toro Rosso's Sebastian Vettel followed up his Monza win with a competitive seventh place, alongside Toyota's Timo Glock.

Williams showed resurgent form to get both cars into Q3 for the first time all year. Nico Rosberg will start ninth, with teammate Kazuki Nakajima in a career-best 10th.

There was massive disappointment for practice pace-setter Fernando Alonso, who had gone into qualifying as an outside contender for the front row following his rapid times so far this weekend. But the Spaniard will start 15th after his Renault cut out with a fuel feed problem before he could set a time in Q2, leaving Alonso visibly devastated as he climbed out of the stricken car.

His teammate Nelson Piquet will join Alonso on row eight, having failed to progress beyond Q1 despite being fourth-fastest earlier today.

Jenson Button maintained his strong practice form to get a Honda into Q2 for the first time since Hungary, with the Briton taking 12th on the grid, next to Jarno Trulli in the second Toyota, while his teammate Rubens Barrichello only managed 18th.

Neither Red Bull Racing driver reached Q3, as Mark Webber and David Coulthard both failed to gain time on their final Q2 runs and were pushed down from the lower top ten places to 13th and 14th

Force India worked hard to repair Giancarlo Fisichella's car after his heavy crash in final practice, only for the Italian to hit the wall again when he finally made it out in the closing minutes of Q1.

This time Fisichella only damaged his front wing when he slid into the Turn 3 barriers, but it was sufficient to end his session and leave him last on the grid, alongside teammate Adrian Sutil.

There was also more frustration for Sebastien Bourdais, who finds himself 10 places behind his Toro Rosso teammate Vettel in 17th on the grid after encountering dire handling problems in Q1. The Frenchman suspected technical problems having lapped 1.3 seconds slower than Vettel in the first segment.

Pos  Driver       Team                 Q1        Q2        Q3       Laps
 1.  Massa        Ferrari              1:44.519  1:44.014  1:44.801  16
 2.  Hamilton     McLaren-Mercedes     1:44.501  1:44.932  1:45.465  14
 3.  Raikkonen    Ferrari              1:44.282  1:44.232  1:45.617  16
 4.  Kubica       BMW Sauber           1:44.740  1:44.519  1:45.779  18
 5.  Kovalainen   McLaren-Mercedes     1:44.311  1:44.207  1:45.873  19
 6.  Heidfeld     BMW Sauber           1:45.548  1:44.520  1:45.964  19
 7.  Vettel       Toro Rosso-Ferrari   1:45.042  1:44.261  1:46.244  15
 8.  Glock        Toyota               1:45.184  1:44.441  1:46.328  21
 9.  Rosberg      Williams-Toyota      1:45.103  1:44.429  1:46.611  17
10.  Nakajima     Williams-Toyota      1:45.127  1:44.826  1:47.547  20
11.  Trulli       Toyota               1:45.642  1:45.038            12
12.  Button       Honda                1:45.660  1:45.133            14
13.  Webber       Red Bull-Renault     1:45.493  1:45.212            12
14.  Coulthard    Red Bull-Renault     1:46.028  1:45.298            16
15.  Alonso       Renault              1:44.971                       6
16.  Piquet       Renault              1:46.037                       6
17.  Bourdais     Toro Rosso-Ferrari   1:46.389                       6
18.  Barrichello  Honda                1:46.583                       7
19.  Sutil        Force India-Ferrari  1:47.940                      10
20.  Fisichella   Force India-Ferrari  No time                        2

[TofuEater]

Singapore looked stunning. Unfortunately i think i'll be watching the replay, not the live race.

[Baffled]

At the time Hamilton made the move there WAS no "wait til after the next corner" rule. So you can't say "They're supposed to wait til after the corner after the incident" etc - because up until after that race, they were NOT supposed to wait until the next corner at all. They simply added that rule before Monza to ensure that no advantage of momentum etc could be carried from a failed move into the following corner. Hamilton followed the letter of the rules at Spa AS THEY WERE written until they were modified after his incident. Monza was the first race held using this NEW rule.

The clarified rule is a good idea. The way Hamilton had his win taken from him, or that he was even penalised at all, and that the result was changed hours after the race, are all bad. And wrong.

Yeah I agree... I was just answering a question. I didnt know if it was clarified/invented though.

Anyway race tonight will be good... damn im gonna be tired for work tomorrow haha. Wonder how long massa will take to crash?

[Quasikomodo]

Anyway race tonight will be good... damn im gonna be tired for work tomorrow haha. Wonder how long massa will take to crash?

Massa will not crash ... unless its wet!!

[Baffled]

Massa will not crash ... unless its wet!!

Nah massa is an all rounder... I'm sure he can crash in the dry as well

[TofuEater]

Massa will not crash ... unless its wet!!

I think his car's very light on fuel compared with the Mclaren. Time will tell, but if Hamilton can keep the pressure on him then i suspect he'll have a little "mishap".

[Quasikomodo]

We must not forget that its going to be a very tricky race, especially as it starts before sundown and there is a 'transition' period until the floodlights take full effect. Should be very entertaining for the spectators.

[TofuEater]

We must not forget that its going to be a very tricky race, especially as it starts before sundown and there is a 'transition' period until the floodlights take full effect.

Remembering all the times i'd been to Singapore i wondered about this - from my calculations the race starts around 8pm local time. ECT in Singapore today is 18:59 (7pm). It will be well dark by the time the race starts.

[Shasta]

Well another disappointing race from Kimi, I've almost lost all faith in him. I'm sure he hasn't lost his talent, he just doesn't seem to give a shit about F1 anymore.

I have to thank Massa though, I got several huge laughs from that wannabe during the race. Sure, the pit incident didn't seem to be his fault, but it was funny all the same. The penalty for the unsafe release was a bit or karma kicking them in the arse, and there was no way they were going to get let off with that one - it was RIGHT in the path of Sutil (again) and with a long hose to boot. Hilarious stuff. Poor pit guy though. Then his total lack of anything left was not surprising, and he ended the race with his usual off track antics and even hitting the wall. There's the Massa we can rely on. He's still only won from the front row (all poles except 1) and by getting to the second corner first. That's not a racer, that's a guy doing 1 1/2 hours of qualifying laps. Real racers can pass people, and stop them from passing you.

/Massa is a huge fraud rant

A real shame about Kubica & co - that pit lane closed rule has got to go.

Good to see someone else sharing the victories this year, even if it is spiteful Alonso. I was hoping for Kubica or even Trulli / Rosberg, but oh well. Hell, with Massa out of the picture and Hamilton not doing too well during the race, even Kimi had a chance to almost claw his way back to around 10 point from the championship lead - even 3/4 through the race.

At the end of the day, the race was entertaining.

[Quasikomodo]

Sure its entertaining ...... but is it really the way we want F1 to go?
Ecclestone and company have turned it into a big enough circus already!

[Shasta]

Yep, Bernie & co need to go. They were good, now they're getting senile it seems. Amongst their other stupid ideas, decisions and rulings these days (by them and their appointed representatives etc of course) is one of the biggest points of fail: they want F1 to be (and already is) a global sport right? Makes sense - so WHY oh WHY does Bernie Piddlestone insist upon the small handful of races in OUR timezone (singapore, malaysia, oz etc) becoming night races - in his own words "because it's just uncivilized that people watching in England have to get up at 2am to watch those races". W T F. There is an entire rest of the planet Bernie, and if you want F1 to increase in following globally, you need to think about them too, not just Europe. I don't complain about having to get up for most of the races, but FFS don't actually go out of your way to suit one small corner of the globe only. The night race was good, and I'd like to see say nurburgring at night etc. Don't limit it to just pacific timezones. Dick.

[Xt1ncT]

Yep, Bernie & co need to go. They were good, now they're getting senile it seems. Amongst their other stupid ideas, decisions and rulings these days (by them and their appointed representatives etc of course) is one of the biggest points of fail: they want F1 to be (and already is) a global sport right? Makes sense - so WHY oh WHY does Bernie Piddlestone insist upon the small handful of races in OUR timezone (singapore, malaysia, oz etc) becoming night races - in his own words "because it's just uncivilized that people watching in England have to get up at 2am to watch those races". W T F. There is an entire rest of the planet Bernie, and if you want F1 to increase in following globally, you need to think about them too, not just Europe. I don't complain about having to get up for most of the races, but FFS don't actually go out of your way to suit one small corner of the globe only. The night race was good, and I'd like to see say nurburgring at night etc. Don't limit it to just pacific timezones. Dick.

FFS I hate this..!!!

I agree again - stupid internets.

However - let's play Devils Advocate.

How big is the TV audience in Europe? How big is it in Asia/Pacific (not the potential - how big is it ACTUALLY?)

Where are the major sponsors based?

If the TV audience down here gets to be as large as in Europe and more companies from this region sponsor the teams/F1 then that will help them put the races on at a decent time for us.

[Shasta]

FFS I hate this..!!!

I agree again - stupid internets.

However - let's play Devils Advocate.

How big is the TV audience in Europe? How big is it in Asia/Pacific (not the potential - how big is it ACTUALLY?)

Where are the major sponsors based?

If the TV audience down here gets to be as large as in Europe and more companies from this region sponsor the teams/F1 then that will help them put the races on at a decent time for us.

Lol - I'm not just talking about Asia / Pacific. Or do you think that Asia / Pacific is "the rest of the world"? I never said that he should arrange things for US down here, I know we are just small-fry, but he needs to think about places and people beyond the smog of Britain. My point was that Europe is not the only place & timezone on the planet, yet Bernie wants to organize F1 SOLELY around that timezone.

Once again:

Europe = 1 part of the world.

Planet = large thing we live on.

People - live all over the planet. Not just in Europe. There are places bigger than Europe, and people with money that like motorsports live there too.

Wanting a global audience = not just gearing it optimally for one timezone.

It's so tiring having to explain the simple things...

[TofuEater]

"The best car finished last" - yeah right!
Arrogant cunts.

[TofuEater]

Interesting article regarding changes to next year's cars to try and allow for more overtaking:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10534984

Basing their investigation on empirically sourced information from McLaren's highly advanced simulator, the working group figured that at the old Barcelona circuit, with a fast corner leading on to the main straight, the driver in a following car needed an advantage of two seconds a lap in order to have a chance of overtaking into the ensuing first corner.

[Zarkov]

Hamilton secures Japanese GP pole

By Matt Beer    Saturday, October 11th 2008, 06:00 GMT

Lewis Hamilton at FujiLewis Hamilton took a crucial pole position for the Japanese Grand Prix, with his title rival Felipe Massa down in fifth place.

In dry and sunny conditions very different to last year's qualifying downpour, Hamilton dug deep to beat a resurgent Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) to pole position, with Heikki Kovalainen and Fernando Alonso filling row two ahead of Massa.

Raikkonen had been fastest after the first Q3 runs, with Massa provisionally completing an all-Ferrari front row and Hamilton only third at that stage.

The reigning world champion then improved further on his flying lap, raising the benchmark to a 1:18.644.

But Hamilton responded in style and beat Raikkonen to pole by 0.2 seconds.

With the points leader's McLaren teammate Kovalainen and Singapore winner Alonso (Renault) leaping to the second row on their own last laps, Massa was pushed back to fifth place - potentially disastrous for his title aspirations.

Robert Kubica took sixth on the grid, but the Pole's teammate Nick Heidfeld had another extremely disappointing qualifying session, and will start from 16th - his worst grid position of the season. Neither BMW was especially competitive in Q1, with Kubica only 14th, but Heidfeld was a crucial 0.151 seconds slower and was eliminated.

Toyota filled row four at their home circuit, with Timo Glock only eighth behind his teammate Jarno Trulli despite going fastest of all in Q1.

The Toro Rossos completed the top ten, Sebastian Vettel beating teammate Sebastien Bourdais to ninth by half a second.

David Coulthard out-qualified his Red Bull Racing teammate Mark Webber for only the second time this season as they took 11th and 13th, 0.167 seconds apart and split by Nelson Piquet's Renault.

Sole home driver Kazuki Nakajima couldn't better 14th place in qualifying, but did have the consolation of out-pacing his Williams teammate Nico Rosberg, who was 0.078 seconds slower and one place behind.

The two Hondas and the two Force Indias fill the final two rows. Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button both looked like they had a chance to make the Q2 cut before others improved and pushed them down the order, and they then failed to improve on their last Q1 laps.

Adrian Sutil was unable to build on his strong practice form and was only 19th, but did out-qualify his Force India teammate Giancarlo Fisichella by a comfortable 0.8 seconds.

Pos  Driver        Team                     Q1         Q2         Q3    
 1.  Hamilton      McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:18.071   1:17.462   1:18.404
 2.  Raikkonen     Ferrari             (B)  1:18.160   1:17.733   1:18.644
 3.  Kovalainen    McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:18.220   1:17.360   1:18.821
 4.  Alonso        Renault             (B)  1:18.290   1:17.871   1:18.852
 5.  Massa         Ferrari             (B)  1:18.110   1:17.287   1:18.874
 6.  Kubica        BMW Sauber          (B)  1:18.684   1:17.931   1:18.979
 7.  Trulli        Toyota              (B)  1:18.501   1:17.541   1:19.026
 8.  Glock         Toyota              (B)  1:17.945   1:17.670   1:19.118
 9.  Vettel        Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:18.559   1:17.714   1:19.638
10.  Bourdais      Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:18.593   1:18.102   1:20.167
11.  Coulthard     Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:18.303   1:18.187
12.  Piquet        Renault             (B)  1:18.300   1:18.274
13.  Webber        Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:18.372   1:18.354
14.  Nakajima      Williams-Toyota     (B)  1:18.640   1:18.594
15.  Rosberg       Williams-Toyota     (B)  1:18.740   1:18.672
16.  Heidfeld      BMW Sauber          (B)  1:18.835
17.  Barrichello   Honda               (B)  1:18.882
18.  Button        Honda               (B)  1:19.100
19.  Sutil         Force India-Ferrari (B)  1:19.163
20.  Fisichella    Force India-Ferrari (B)  1:19.910

[TofuEater]

Disappointing, very disappointing.

[Zarkov]

Shocking drive by Hamilton.

That move at the start where he took out half the field was pure noob.

Maybe he should let his dad drive.

Or maybe not....

[Xt1ncT]

Shocking drive by Hamilton.

That move at the start where he took out half the field was pure noob.

Maybe he should let his dad drive.

He's just too much of a racer. One day he'll be mature enough to realise that you don't have to win the races when you have a lead in the championship and your nearest rival is behind you, but right now he's driving exactly like he did last year - trying to win races when 2nd or 3rd is absolutely fine.

Ron needs to give him a massive serve.

Also, I'm not sure why he got a drive through - is there something in the rules saying you can't force a car wide??

[pyro]

So you think that forcing cars off the track is perfectly acceptable?

If its done in a fashion where the overtaking driver is clearly past the other car/s and he merely push's him wide its not a problem but to slide down the inside wheels locked pushing out 3-4 cars off the track impeding their way and costing them positions clearly thats grounds for a penalty.

One thing that gets me is the commentators, they are so far up Hamiltons ass they can't see daylight. They seem to be constantly against Ferrari, anytime the McLaren is slower "well obviously the Ferrari's are on a lighter fuel load and a different strategy"  A few race's back Hamilton clearly pushed a couple of guys off the track and cut of others(one being Alonso on the main straight) yet nothing is ever said about it.

Anyone that has been following F1 for years will obviously remember the comments after Massa slowed to let Schuy by for the win, how it was unsportsmanlike and things like that should be punished. The same people now have different views when its with McLaren and Hamilton.

Hamilton is a great driver but he is too immature and inexperienced which once again is showing at the end of the season, he had the championship won last year and threw it away, is he going to do the same again by pulling stupid moves like he did today. I liked the final lap behind Alonso after being lapped he started pushing so hard locking up the front wheel then sliding it through the chicane, luckily Alonso had the smarts to let him past and cruise to the finish. Out of the points clearly down with nothing to gain and he drives like this, he has a long way to go.

I hope Massa has a good finish and takes the season he has really proved himself this year after many people have written him off as a championship winner. Blowing the engine on the final lap and last races incident in the pits might of cost him the championship.  

p.s. LOL I loved the comment about Coulthard and clearly it ****** (forgot who was mentioned) had clipped him spinning him around and causing the damage, was nice to see the replay with the suspension failing with no contact. David can never put a foot wrong lol, but thats what happens when your managing him and commentating, ive learnt to switch off to most of whats said now.

[Spork]

Yea, the commentators are total rubbish, more James Allen or what ever his name is, he goes absolutely fucking skits when ever Hamilton appears on the screen.

Strange race, entertaining I guess, looked like everyones front lefts got a bloody hammering though!

[TofuEater]

I liked the final lap behind Alonso after being lapped he started pushing so hard locking up the front wheel then sliding it through the chicane, luckily Alonso had the smarts to let him past and cruise to the finish. Out of the points clearly down with nothing to gain and he drives like this, he has a long way to go.

They explained this. By getting back onto the lead lap, Hamilton ensured that he would pick up any points if someone happened to not finish in front of him. It was a good move, though it didn't end up bearing any fruit.