The Official Formula 1 thread

[pyro]

No he didn't.He lost by one point.


Lets face it,they both had there moments this session and thats what made it one of the more interesting in recent history.It was just what the sport needed after spygate and some of the processions of recent history.At least it injected some life back into it..........and what a race.

Your missing my point, if Massa'a car had the reliability of the McLaren, he would of won the championship easily.

[Amphion]

The championship will be great next year, I hope they bring in the new restrictions for tighter racing. And can I just say.... THAT WAS THE BEST FINISH TO ANY RACE WE WILL SEE IN OUR LIFETIME!

Except for Bathurst '07, that rocked.

[Quasikomodo]

Shall I point out the mistakes hamilton made this year as well? You could also say if Massa's engine didnt go on the last lap whilst leading, didnt have that stupid light system stuff up in the pits, didnt have a puncture etc etc. Hamiltons car was far more reliable this year, Massa deserved to win the championship.

Hey I'm a Ferrari ... and Massa fan and wanted him to win, but he didn't!! Perhaps we should be as dignified as Massa in defeat and stop making excuses!?

Hamilton IS champion ... and deserved it, just as much as Massa would have deserved it if he had have won the championship!

Hey, its been a few years since Maclaren won one, gotta give them one once in a while!!:chuckle:

[Amphion]

Hey I'm a Ferrari ... and Massa fan and wanted him to win, but he didn't!! Perhaps we should be as dignified as Massa in defeat and stop making excuses!?

Hamilton IS champion ... and deserved it, just as much as Massa would have deserved it if he had have won the championship!

Hey, its been a few years since Maclaren won one, gotta give them one once in a while!!:chuckle:

But he's British, it's just not right for me to admit defeat to a pom.... xD, oh well, we trashed them in the footy, what as it, 50 to 4?... Speaking of which I think we smashed New Zealand too... ... Okay, mesa happy now.

Hamilton won, yeah, but there are factors that came into play, like Glock being "asked" to slow down. He didnt need to.

[Temp]

...like Glock being "asked" to slow down. He didnt need to.

Proof please..

[Xt1ncT]

like Glock being "asked" to slow down. He didnt need to.

Yes please, proof would be nice.

Plus - have you ever driven one of those with slicks on in the rain?

[pyro]

Hey I'm a Ferrari ... and Massa fan and wanted him to win, but he didn't!! Perhaps we should be as dignified as Massa in defeat and stop making excuses!?

Hamilton IS champion ... and deserved it, just as much as Massa would have deserved it if he had have won the championship!

Hey, its been a few years since Maclaren won one, gotta give them one once in a while!!:chuckle:

Im not trying to make excuses, I just thought I'd point out a few things since you made the comment on about learning to drive in the wet, even after his excellent performance in the final race.

Hamilton won, yeah, but there are factors that came into play, like Glock being "asked" to slow down. He didnt need to.

If you check the lap times of both Glock and his team mate, the only 2 on dry tyres Glock was quicker on the final lap. Going back a few races you seen exactly the same situation were guys stayed out on dry tyres and the guys that came in for wets/intermediates took 20 secs a lap of them. Watching the in-car cam you can clearly see in the final 2 laps it started to rain more, obviously making it difficult to keep it on the track on the dry tyres.

[Shasta]

He's just won the Brazilian GP in the rain

Rofl. If that was a "rain" race, I'm peter pan. They started on a damp track, that dried quickly, and had a small shower a handful of laps from the end. Puuuh-leease. A rain race is like Silverstone was. In fact, the only time during the Brazilian race that it actually rained, was about the time Massa crossed the line to END the race. The fact that it is such a big deal that Massa didn't smash into the wall during the handful of laps that the track had water on it, really says it all.

Massa has STILL only won from the front row of the grid. Why? Because he can't RACE others. Sure, he's fast on a track by himself, but when he has to pass someone...well, I'm sure even Massa fans know how that ends.

[Temp]

He won more races than anyone else this year, and you can't do that by accident.

[hpsd]

Massa has STILL only won from the front row of the grid. Why? Because he can't RACE others. Sure, he's fast on a track by himself, but when he has to pass someone...well, I'm sure even Massa fans know how that ends.

100% agree. Hamilton was excellent coming through the field in Malaysia, was great in Bahrain trying to pass Alonso, did a smashing job coming through the field in France, excellent coming through the field in Japan and was by far the best driver in Brazil, especially in the rain. He also did a great job of passing Raikkonen in Belgium. Also Massa was just awful in the dieing stages of the race at Canada, I can't remember him passing a single car.

Sheesh, give me a break, you've no idea what you're talking about.

Plus your point about Massa having only won from the front row of the grid is correct, but neither has Hamilton, except for some flukish races in Monaco and Silverstone in which rain greatly affected the outcome, and where he needn't pass anyone on track anyway

[Flash]

Rofl. If that was a "rain" race, I'm peter pan. They started on a damp track, that dried quickly, and had a small shower a handful of laps from the end. Puuuh-leease. A rain race is like Silverstone was. In fact, the only time during the Brazilian race that it actually rained, was about the time Massa crossed the line to END the race. The fact that it is such a big deal that Massa didn't smash into the wall during the handful of laps that the track had water on it, really says it all.

Massa has STILL only won from the front row of the grid. Why? Because he can't RACE others. Sure, he's fast on a track by himself, but when he has to pass someone...well, I'm sure even Massa fans know how that ends.

Don't laugh at Zarkov.

It makes him flatten his ears back.

[Spork]

Only just got to watch the race now.

Was a fairly exciting race tbh, some of the usually slower drivers put in a good effort throughout different parts of the race, like Trulli and Fisi. Hamilton did a real good job, but was is it just more or did he almost lose control at least a hundred times? Just before Glock it looked like he was about to put his car into the wall, and that certainly wasn't an isolated case. Although I guess everyone possibly would have been the same, but seeming that ITV are so in love with Hamilton, they hardly showed any coverage of the other drivers.

Did you hear the commentators cream their pants when they realised Hamilton had won the championship?
Was also quite a sad site to see how happy the whole Ferrari crew were, just to be told that Hamilton had won the championship.

Hamilton definitely deserved the title, but in my opinion there have been many others previous to him who were better fitted to the title.

Now we just have to sit out and wait until Melbourne next year! Does anyone know if it is going to be a night race? They were talking about it a while ago, that the only way Melbourne could keep the GP was to hold it at night, but I wasn't sure if that was from next year onwards or maybe 2010 onwards.

[Shasta]

He won more races than anyone else this year, and you can't do that by accident.

Sure you can. Massa proved it this year. Sure, he's fast, but he's not a racer. If you can qualify on the front row, and your rivals have problems (some created by themselves, some created by Max & Bernies obsession with tampering with the results) then you can scamper off from the start and not actually have to race anyone. Which is exactly what he did each and every time.

He's a great qualifying driver - and he races each lap in the race as a qualifying lap. The problem is, if he doesn't qualify well and has other actual cars around him, he's stuffed. He can't pass them, and often they can pass him. Or he gets flustered and stacks the car. And then there are his Brazilian emotions that usually get the better of him, although he has calmed those a little lately.

He's a fast quali/test driver that got extremely lucky this year - Kimi sucked, Lewis made a few silly errors, Kubica's team started developing next years car early, Alonso's car sucked most of the year, and the FIA made some stupid calls against his rivals, and declined to make calls against him that should have been made.

[Amphion]

Proof please..

Exactly what Pyro said, he was asked to slow down by the crew so he could control the car, admittedly he wasnt meant to let Massa through, so it wasnt his fault. But he did.

Eh, the commentary team I listened too on Channel 10 said that he had. :S.

[TofuEater]

Sure you can. Massa proved it this year. Sure, he's fast, but he's not a racer. If you can qualify on the front row, and your rivals have problems (some created by themselves, some created by Max & Bernies obsession with tampering with the results) then you can scamper off from the start and not actually have to race anyone. Which is exactly what he did each and every time.

It's an excellent observation and a considered analysis. If you look at his results this year, it seems to bear out:

Pole-Finish
AUS: 4-ret
MSA: 1-ret
BAH: 2-1 (overtook Kubrica)
SPN: 3-2
TUR: 1-1
MON: 1-3
CAN: 6-5
FRA: 2-1 (overtook Raikonnen)
GBR: 9-13
GER: 2-3
HUN: 3-ret (17th)
EUR: 1-1
BEL: 2-1 (Hamilton was awarded a 25 sec penalty)
ITA: 6-6
SIN: 1-13 (drive through penalty)
JAP: 5-7
CHI: 3-2 (overtook Raikonnen)
BRA: 1-1

Apart from Bahrain (when he got by a developing and unconfident BMW), the only times he won when not on poll was when he was allowed through by Raikonnen or the stewards.

For comparison, here is Hamilton's results:
Pole-Finish
AUS: 1-1
MSA: 4-5
BAH: 3-13 (crashed into Alonso)
SPN: 5-3
TUR: 3-2 (passed Kovlainen)
MON: 3-1 (passed Massa and Raikkonen)
CAN: 1-ret (pitlane crash)
FRA: 13-10 (actually qualified 3rd, but was penalised 10 places from previous crash)
GBR: 4-1 (passed Kovalainen, Webber, Raikkonen)
GER: 1-1
HUN: 1-5
EUR: 2-2 (behind Massa)
BEL: 1-3 (finished 1, assessed a 25 sec penalty)
ITA: 15-7
SIN: 2-3
JAP: 1-12 (involved in incidents with Raikkonen and Massa)
CHI: 1-1
BRA: 4-5

[Amphion]

I'm not making this up... I'm only saying what I heard....

[TofuEater]

Glock's denied it. Are you calling him a liar?

[Shasta]

It's an excellent observation and a considered analysis. If you look at his results this year, it seems to bear out:

Pole-Finish
AUS: 4-ret
MSA: 1-ret
BAH: 2-1 (overtook Kubrica)
SPN: 3-2
TUR: 1-1
MON: 1-3
CAN: 6-5
FRA: 2-1 (overtook Raikonnen)
GBR: 9-13
GER: 2-3
HUN: 3-ret (17th)
EUR: 1-1
BEL: 2-1 (Hamilton was awarded a 25 sec penalty)
ITA: 6-6
SIN: 1-13 (drive through penalty)
JAP: 5-7
CHI: 3-2 (overtook Raikonnen)
BRA: 1-1

Apart from Bahrain (when he got by a developing and unconfident BMW), the only times he won when not on poll was when he was allowed through by Raikonnen or the stewards.

You forgot to add that when he "overtook" Raikkonen in China, he was actually let past to gain max championship points, and when he got past Kimi in France, it was because pieces were literally falling off Kimi's car and engine - but in both cases, Kimi was a long way up the road before something happened to allow Massa through.


Hamilton has a different problem, but more potential. He is fast, and can certainly race, but makes poor judgement calls and often pushes too hard at the wrong times. Then of course there are the bizarre call coming from the stewards...

[Shasta]

Eh, the commentary team I listened too on Channel 10 said that he had. :S.

Ahh, so the COMMENTARY TEAM knows more than Toyota and Glock? Well, that's all the proof I need.

/sarcasm

[Baffled]

How the 2008 drivers' championship unfolded - a bite-sized guide

Four men quickly emerged as title contenders in 2008, one of them quite unexpectedly. All of them started from pole, all stood on the top step of the podium and all of them led the standings, but only one could be champion. So close was the competition that halfway through the season just two points covered Lewis Hamilton, Felipe Massa, Kimi Raikkonen and Robert Kubica, with three of the four level at the top of the table. We look back on the evolution of a gripping contest…

Round one - Australia
First blood to McLaren and Hamilton. As they win, Ferrari suffer a disastrous start to the season, with Raikkonen and Massa mustering just one point between them. Kubica starts from the front row, but retires after being hit from behind by Nakajima.
Standings: Hamilton 10, Raikkonen 1, Massa 0, Kubica 0

Round two - Malaysia
A back-on-form Ferrari dominate qualifying and look set for a one-two until Massa puts it into the gravel, leaving Raikkonen to take the win from Kubica. McLaren are hamstrung by grid penalties and Hamilton trails home fifth.
Standings: Hamilton 14, Raikkonen 11, Kubica 8, Massa 0

Round three - Bahrain
Kubica springs a surprise with a maiden pole, but it’s Massa who’s quickest off the line, the Brazilian going on to a much-needed first win of the season. Raikkonen beats Kubica to second to seize the championship lead, as Hamilton again fails to score following a fluffed start and a collision with Alonso.
Standings: Raikkonen 19, Hamilton 14, Kubica 14, Massa 10

Round four - Spain
Raikkonen wins from pole to almost double his lead over Hamilton. Massa follows him home for another Ferrari one-two, with Hamilton third and Kubica fourth.
Standings: Raikkonen 29, Hamilton 20, Kubica 19, Massa 18

Round five - Turkey
Massa takes a third successive Istanbul win to move into joint second in the table with Hamilton, who pips Raikkonen to P2 at the flag, with Kubica a distant fourth.
Standings: Raikkonen 35, Massa 28, Hamilton 28, Kubica 22

Round six - Monaco
Hamilton regains the championship lead for the first time since Malaysia with a confident performance on Monte Carlo’s slippery streets. Kubica is second and Massa third, but Raikkonen fails to score after running into the rear of Sutil.
Standings: Hamilton 38, Raikkonen 35, Massa 34, Kubica 32

Round seven - Canada
Montreal sees Kubica’s finest hour as he leads a BMW Sauber one-two for his and the team’s first victory. With it comes the championship lead, as Hamilton eliminates himself and Raikkonen in an unlikely pit-lane collision, and Massa can only manage fifth following a refuelling problem.
Standings: Kubica 42, Hamilton 38, Massa 38, Raikkonen 35

Round eight - France
Massa takes his first - and only - turn at the top of the table after exhaust problems for Raikkonen hand him victory. The Finn makes it home in second, with Kubica fifth. No points for Hamilton, who starts with a grid penalty for his Canada mishap and is then penalised again for an illegal pass on Vettel.
Standings: Massa 48, Kubica 46, Raikkonen 43, Hamilton 38

Round nine - Britain
The season reaches the halfway mark and things could not be closer. An imperious wet-weather win for Hamilton, combined with lacklustre performances from his rivals, produces a three-way tie at the top of the standings, with Kubica just two points adrift in fourth.
Standings: Hamilton 48, Massa 48, Raikkonen 48, Kubica 46

Round 10 - Germany
Another storming drive from Hamilton brings a fourth season victory and a championship lead that he will ultimately never relinquish. Massa is the only other contender to score heavily, with third place. Raikkonen and Kubica finish sixth and seventh respectively.
Standings: Hamilton 58, Massa 54, Raikkonen 51, Kubica 48

Round 11 - Hungary
An engine failure robs Massa of likely victory and a puncture helps relegate Hamilton to fifth, leaving Heikki Kovalainen free to score his maiden F1 victory, with third-placed Raikkonen joining him on the podium. Kubica takes a single point for eighth.
Standings: Hamilton 62, Raikkonen 57, Massa 54, Kubica 49

Round 12 - Europe
Raikkonen begins a sequence of four non-scoring races as his engine fails. Unfortunately for him, all three of his rivals make the podium, with Massa victorious from Hamilton and Kubica.
Standings: Hamilton 70, Massa 64, Raikkonen 57, Kubica 55

Round 13 - Belgium
Massa closes to within two points of the championship leader after a controversial ending at Spa. Hamilton is demoted from first to third for cutting a chicane whilst battling for the lead with Raikkonen, who subsequently crashes out. Massa inherits the win and Kubica takes sixth place to keep his fading title hopes alive.
Standings: Hamilton 76, Massa 74, Kubica 58, Raikkonen 57

Round 14 - Italy
Kubica is the biggest beneficiary as Vettel stuns the top guns with a maiden win for Red Bull. The Pole finishes third behind Kovalainen, while Massa’s sixth place puts him just one point shy of Hamilton, who takes seventh. Raikkonen is again out of the points in ninth.
Standings: Hamilton 78, Massa 77, Kubica 64, Raikkonen 57

Round 15 - Singapore
With third place, Hamilton is the only title contender to score in Formula One’s inaugural night race, which sees a surprise win for Renault’s Fernando Alonso. Kubica finishes 11th after a drive-through penalty for pitting under the safety car, Massa’s race is ruined after he leaves his pit with the fuel hose still attached, and Raikkonen crashes out of his own accord.
Standings: Hamilton 84, Massa 77, Kubica 64, Raikkonen 57

Round 16 - Japan
A second successive win for Alonso further tightens the championship race. Hamilton and Massa are both hit with early penalties for driving offences, helping Kubica to haul himself back into contention with a second place. Raikkonen finally rediscovers the scoring habit, but it’s too little too late and the reigning champion drops out of the title race.
Standings: Hamilton 84, Massa 79, Kubica 72, Raikkonen 63

Round 17 - China
Hamilton banishes the memory of Shanghai ’07 with a dominant victory that puts him on the brink of championship glory. Second for Massa ensures it will go down to the wire, but Kubica’s title aspirations end with a disappointing sixth place.
Standings: Hamilton 94, Massa 87, Kubica 75

Round 18 - Brazil
The season climaxes in truly dramatic fashion, with Hamilton seizing the fifth place he needs at the very last corner, as a rampant Massa cruises to the win. For a moment, Ferrari think their man has done enough, before the timing screens confirm the McLaren driver has made it by a single point, becoming Formula One’s youngest ever champion.
Final standings: Hamilton 98, Massa 97



http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2008/11/8660.html

[Shasta]

Well, even though F1 is currently in it's off season phase, there is plenty going on to keep in touch with. For those of you F1 fans living under rocks, or missing the point of your internet connections:

Honda is OUT of F1, and is trying to sell up its F1 program.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44707


Hockenheim seems to be joining Canada and China in dropping out of F1, or threatening to:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44690


The stupid looking 2009 wings have begun to make their way into testing - hopefully they at least help make the racing closer...




Other news:

Alonso has joined Ferrari in threatening to quit F1 if the engine rules dreamed up in Max Mosley's ass come into effect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7761669.stm
Ferraris side:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7694009.stm

Bernie Ecclestone says 2009 season will be scored with gold, silver and bronze medals ONLY in drivers championship.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7749751.stm

Mark Webber breaks his leg during a cycle race
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7743308.stm

Berger sells his share of Torro Rosso to Red Bull owner Mateschitz
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7749003.stm

Bernie Ecclestone faces costly divorce.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7740348.stm

Brundle, Coulthard, Jordan join BBC F1 team.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7745347.stm

[Zarkov]

The Alonso threat to pull out should give Ernie something to think about.

[TofuEater]

Na, he's too busy working out how much extra to give Ferarri:

Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone revealed that Ferrari gets up to US$80 ($NZ139.5) million more out of the sport than any other team because of a special deal set up five years ago to buy the team's loyalty.

After Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo accused Ecclestone of not running F1 in a normal, transparent manner, the 78-year-old billionaire told The Times of London how much the famous Italian sports car manufacturer received from the sport.

"Ferrari get so much more money than everyone else," Ecclestone reportedly said. "They know exactly what they get, they are not that stupid, although they are not that bright, either. They get about US$80 million more.

"When they win the constructors' championship, which they did this year, they got US$80 million more than if McLaren had won it."

Ferrari's history in F1 has been central to the success of the sport over many years and Ecclestone said a special deal was set up after the teams threatened to break away and form a rival championship in 2003.

"They were the only team that broke ranks with the other manufacturers," he was quoted as saying in today's edition of The Times. "Why did they break ranks? That's where the US$80 million comes in.

"We 'bought' Ferrari's loyalty. Our deal with Ferrari was that we 'bought' them so they would not go to the others."

The row between the boss of F1 and the head of Ferrari comes at a time when the sport's world governing body is trying to get teams to make big spending cuts.

"What he (di Montezemolo) should do, rather than asking for money, with all the extra money Ferrari gets, he should share all that amongst the teams," Ecclestone told The Times.

:disappoin :disappoin :disappoin

[Xt1ncT]

Na, he's too busy working out how much extra to give Ferarri:



:disappoin :disappoin :disappoin

There you go. Where are those people that slated us for saying ferrari were treated differently now?

I've been saying for ages something was going on after they did the dirty on the other manufacturers and signed up with bernie again.

[nzjeebs]

Bernie Ecclestone's idea to make the F1 championship decided not by point but by medal tally sounds fucking fantastic, i hope this proposal goes through, will make for much more exciting racing.

Link for those of you who havent been keeping up with f1 goss.
http://formula1.com/news/interviews/2008/12/8775.html