Game Piracy.

[-{LD}-Nappy]

i have but mostly for older games

several times ive owned a game and lost the cd or its broken so i download it

[Alexo256]

My Pirate games folder is 54 GB. Is that bad?

[-{LD}-Nappy]

that means you win... unless someone can beat you

[Nyan]

I will download a game and if i like it ill buy it, When it comes to music though...I say stuff em.

[Arnifix]

Xt, you realise that, until the recent changes to the copyright act, format shifting was the same offence as piracy? So while you say that you're honest, according to the laws, which seems to be what you base your moral compass on, you're just as much of a crook.

Game Piracy.

I prefer to consider things like this from another standpoint. If you're selling copies of games you've burnt onto dvd, then you're a crook. Profiting from anothers work, seems like it fits the mold pretty neatly.

But what about the publishers. Lets accept the fact that most retail outfits will not take returns on PC games due to piracy concerns. Now consider that I've run into several games that will not run on my pc because of their copy protection systems. Games I have legitimately purchased do not run. But downloading cracked copies of these games allows me to run them. So these developers and publishers are selling a product that is defective by design. In their attempt to battle piracy they are actively working to make the end users life more difficult. Is that morally correct?

It's the same argument that can be applied to downloaded music. Why would I purchase music with DRM, knowing that I can do less with it, when I could download higher quality "pirated" material for free. There's been at least two major stories now about online music providers (iirc sony and microsoft) turning off DRM authentication servers, rendering all the music bought by people using those services absolutely worthless. That's what happens when music, or games, stop being a product and become a service.

Now for some games and music, this makes sense. MMORPG's are better classified as a service, as they are providing live updates and patches. But when was the last time that an extra track was added to an album you bought online? When was the last time the developer of a single player game added additional content after launch for free?

In my eyes, it comes down to these companies forgetting that people play games. For example, the original Red Alert allowed you to lend the second game disc to a friend, so you could play against them online without them buying a copy. That's a fucking genius idea, and something that customers totally responded to because it was a good thing. There was no downside to that plan for the customer.

Compare that to Blizzard suing people for selling WoW characters under the premise of intellectual property laws. They're essentially saying "because we don't make money from second hand products, it should be illegal to sell them". That's what intellectual property laws are used for Xt, not for the protection of the poor game publishers, but for the exploitation of the customers.

[cobra]

Do you say the same about a car? Or your clothes or any other product out there?

the problem is it is very different from stealing a car or clothes - if i take these some one loses them, if i download a game who has lost what?

i live with a game developer and his room is filled with pirated games

[Xt1ncT]

but you just sold on your rights to the intellectual property on that disc so by keeping a copy yourself and from your own definition you are a thief

Not at all - beause as soon as I had sold it I deleted he game in it's entirety. I'm surprised you didn't get that from my post - perhaps I should have worded it differently.

Instead of "I just sold CoD4 - did i burn it??" I should have said "I Just sold CoD4 and made sure I deleted it before the guy played it"

So you have never borrowed a game or DVD to watch of your friends?

I was not talking about online games more single player.
I have spent thousand of dollars buying CDs DVDs and games over the years and I still do like I said in my other post most games I have brought and I am not a thief.

I like to have collection I still buy CDs and DVDs.
I am not saying that piracy is not theft XT the above post was just more asking a question.

Unfortunately I guess this is just part of the modern world with the net and technology when  I was a kid the only way you could get a song without buying it was was to tape it off the radio lol.

Of course I have borrowed music, and DVD's and you'll find there is no law against lending music/software etc. Copying it is another matter altogether.

Certainly more British! :asian:

Of course..!!!!

Xt, you realise that, until the recent changes to the copyright act, format shifting was the same offence as piracy? So while you say that you're honest, according to the laws, which seems to be what you base your moral compass on, you're just as much of a crook

Yes I do realise that - I wonder how many of us knew of that peculiarity prior to it being brought to our notice? However, that law has been changed now hasn't it?

But what about the publishers. Lets accept the fact that most retail outfits will not take returns on PC games due to piracy concerns. Now consider that I've run into several games that will not run on my pc because of their copy protection systems. Games I have legitimately purchased do not run. But downloading cracked copies of these games allows me to run them. So these developers and publishers are selling a product that is defective by design. In their attempt to battle piracy they are actively working to make the end users life more difficult. Is that morally correct?

It's the same argument that can be applied to downloaded music. Why would I purchase music with DRM, knowing that I can do less with it, when I could download higher quality "pirated" material for free. There's been at least two major stories now about online music providers (iirc sony and microsoft) turning off DRM authentication servers, rendering all the music bought by people using those services absolutely worthless. That's what happens when music, or games, stop being a product and become a service.

Now for some games and music, this makes sense. MMORPG's are better classified as a service, as they are providing live updates and patches. But when was the last time that an extra track was added to an album you bought online? When was the last time the developer of a single player game added additional content after launch for free?

In my eyes, it comes down to these companies forgetting that people play games. For example, the original Red Alert allowed you to lend the second game disc to a friend, so you could play against them online without them buying a copy. That's a fucking genius idea, and something that customers totally responded to because it was a good thing. There was no downside to that plan for the customer.

Compare that to Blizzard suing people for selling WoW characters under the premise of intellectual property laws. They're essentially saying "because we don't make money from second hand products, it should be illegal to sell them". That's what intellectual property laws are used for Xt, not for the protection of the poor game publishers, but for the exploitation of the customers.

There's a simple solution really - buy your games from Ghost, and if you don't like them take them back. Easy.

I do understand what you're saying and agree to a point. Developers should do more for gamers - EA are a classic, so many of their games seem unfinished. However, have you ever thought that a lot of the bus that we find can't be found until the game is released to a wider audience? I'm not saying that's right, just a thought.

Also, your exact attitude perpetuates the need for anti-piracy.

Have you ever thought that without the proliferation of torrent sites, muscis download sites and the like, there would be no need for those measures? Now in a perfect world that would be the case, however we're not in a perfect world and there are people who see nothing wrong with not paying for something they obviously think is a good product.

Personally, I like games like rFactor where the code is open to other developers to add more mods and tracks all free of charge - all we pay is the $60 odd USD to d/l the game then we get hundreds and hundreds of free mods and tracks - it's great and makes people want to play the game. If more developers were like that then most of us would be a lot happier.

I don't think there will ever be a perfect solution simply because just like with hacking, the pirates are always one step ahead of the developers and I for one think that's a shame.

I know I would want to be paid for work I do - especailly if what I did brought fun to millions of people.

[`Dirty Heathen]

I also agree with what Arni said to me copying a game or CD to sell it and make money is really more the problem.

As you responded to my question yes you have borrowed DVDs of your friends to watch so whats the difference from me downloading a movie to watch then deleting it off my hard drive.
Most DVDs you find to that are shared that person who up loaded it brought it in the first place now he is choosing to share that movie with others..

I am not talking about the legal side of this just more your so called moral high ground I see no difference you did not pay for the movie you borrowed of your mate and watched did you?

Same as a game I just asked you before if I lent a game to my mate to play you said thats theft so what the difference?

[Xt1ncT]

I also agree with what Arni said to me copying a game or CD to sell it and make money is really more the problem.

As you responded to my question yes you have borrowed DVDs of your friends to watch so whats the difference from me downloading a movie to watch then deleting it off my hard drive.
Most DVDs you find to that are shared that person who up loaded it brought it in the first place now he is choosing to share that movie with others..

I am not talking about the legal side of this just more your so called moral high ground I see no difference you did not pay for the movie you borrowed of your mate and watched did you?

Same as a game I just asked you before if I lent a game to my mate to play you said thats theft so what the difference?

I think the difference is in the intent.

Do you intend to keep the game/dvd that you have borrowed or not? Did you friend keep the game or not?

If the answer is yes they are keeping it then yes it's theft.

If not then it's not such an issue.

[Electric]

Justify it anyway you like.

Have you seen the adverts at the start of DVD's?

Says exactly what I am saying - piracy is theft.

You are getting something that you are not entitled to, which should be paid for, that to me is the very definition of theft.

Who said I was justifying it?

I'm just saying they are different offenses, one much more serious than the other. Hell I've seen those ads at the start of the DVD's, ads at the theatres, they compare grand theft auto to downloading a movie.

They are ADS, do you believe everything you see in the media? the ADS are thrown to us by the MPAA, they are the most money grubbing bastards in the universe. The ads are bullshit because 1) it doesn't follow the legal definition of stealing, like I said before, according to the law, it is copyright infringement. 2) it doesn't follow with the dictionary definition of stealing.

You say that if you get something that you are not entitled to, which should be paid for, that is stealing. Well, every single person I know, according to you, is a thief. Even though I only know of two people who have actually stolen shit from shops, you are comparing all of us like them. Good one.

[KiLL3r]

I think the difference is in the intent.

Do you intend to keep the game/dvd that you have borrowed or not? Did you friend keep the game or not?

If the answer is yes they are keeping it then yes it's theft.

If not then it's not such an issue.

so if i take a car for a joy ride but bring it back it doesnt make me a thief? Of course not. the same principle applys for your above statement. it doesnt matter if you dont keep it, its that you took it/burnt it to begin with.

[Xt1ncT]

so if i take a car for a joy ride but bring it back it doesnt make me a thief? Of course not. the same principle applys for your above statement. it doesnt matter if you dont keep it, its that you took it/burnt it to begin with.

Are you really comparing joy riding to borrowing a DVD?

Let's blow that one out of the water straight away.

Joy-riding = taking the car without the owner's permission = stealing.

Borrowing a DVD from a friend is with the owner's permission = borrowing.

[KiLL3r]

Are you really comparing joy riding to borrowing a DVD?

Let's blow that one out of the water straight away.

Joy-riding = taking the car without the owner's permission = stealing.

Borrowing a DVD from a friend is with the owner's permission = borrowing.

hey your the one who lumps stealing a car in with downloading a form of digital entertainment.

[SittingDuck]

Well i'm more of a fan of the Multiplayer side of things... Usually i'll hire a game out for the Multiplayer with my mates, Crack/Copy and Buy if i want to play online.

Because you need a legit CD-key, And if it's decent

[qwerty4me]

I'm about half way between the middle two. I end up buying a lot of the stuff I pirate, or I delete it. I have had 1 or 2 keepers though... but I haven't pirated a game in a while, it's just too big. I can't pirate 6GB (thanks to my generosity, with a 1:1 share ratio, that comes out to 12GB), I'm all ready restricted to 30GB a month. I get near there without torrents.

[420fairy]

i dont dl games much.  I did dl the other day to see if it was worth buying, there are two of us that game here therefore whatever we buy i have to buy two of, so there is no way im shelling out $200 for 2 copies to find the game is absolute shite.

as for movies, well if we were to go its a setback of $80 a hit for tickets, dinner and munchies, thats what i spend on my netbill a month.  and im an avid movie watcher,i roughly watch 4-7 movies a week.

i dont dl music, dont really listen to it much.

[Nyan]

im restrcited to 20 - 30gigs a month so some thing arent an option.

[Tiwaking!]

What's a mitigating factor for stealing something that doesn't belong to you?

I may be showing my age now, but I now agree with Xt1ncT.
All the illegal piraters I have ever met
The MAJORITY of the piraters that I have met have been thieving, lazy, thoughtless, sociopathic scumbags.

The world needs less of them.

[Xsannz]

i tend to dl a game and try it before i buy it.

I am from a generation when shareware was gaming... you could get 99% of the game as shareware and if you liked it you bought it.

today demos are nothing more than a scripted 5min look at me and often don't showcase enough of the game.

I do download the occasional movie and tv show that i cant get elsewhere like good oldies etc.

an if you want to label me a pirate then fine.. however look at my steam account to know that any game i have ever liked i have purchased so my downloading a game to try it is the truth of the matter.

http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/xsannz

[Tiwaking!]

i tend to dl a game and try it before i buy it.

I would do this, but I know too many people who go out and buy games so I either borrow it from them (Skyrim was a good example of this) or play on their computer.

If it is good, it goes in the bought pile. If it is bad it is forgotten.

I am from a generation when shareware was gaming... you could get 99% of the game as shareware and if you liked it you bought it.

Funny thing with shareware games was that you could mod them. The last moddable game demo I can think of is Battlefield 2.

today demos are nothing more than a scripted 5min look at me and often don't showcase enough of the game.

Oh Mirrors Edge, how you managed to steal so much money from unsuspecting gamers.

I do download the occasional movie and tv show that i cant get elsewhere like good oldies etc.

an if you want to label me a pirate then fine.. however look at my steam account to know that any game i have ever liked i have purchased so my downloading a game to try it is the truth of the matter.

http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/xsannz

I've downloaded movies: Vampyr and Birth of a Nation and I am all the better for it.
Also: Steam and the Humble Bundles has forever made the whole affair of video game piracy highly questionable.

[Kayne]

I don't usually get new games because of how shit this pc is, But if I think the developer really deserves the money, I'll buy it. I'll also do it if its a cheap game.

[Munchie]

I end up buying 95% of the games I 'rip off' and I always buy Indie games no matter what. For me personally I feel cheated out of $90 if a PC title is shit because I didn't get to Demo it first.

I also wish Steam had a ‘pass on’ feature, so if you didn’t like a game, you could either:

• Pass it onto a friend for free or
• Pass it onto a friend for a fee (not exceeding the original cost of the game)

[Dr. Acula]

I end up buying 95% of the games I 'rip off' and I always buy Indie games no matter what. For me personally I feel cheated out of $90 if a PC title is shit because I didn't get to Demo it first.

This ^ as soon as a game is released, I usually jump on Warez-bb and grab a copy from there, then if I know I'm going to be spending a lot of time playing it, or it's just downright good, I'll buy it.

Also, about that 'pass on' feature, I agree, if you could pass it on to a friend, for maybe a discounted price, which means Steam would still be getting money for a second-hand game and it wouldn't just go to waste and collect dust, metaphorically speaking.

[Dr. Acula]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/03/european-court-of-justice-rules-on-the-right-to-sell-your-digital-games-and-licenses/

Speak of the devil.

[Tiwaking!]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/03/european-court-of-justice-rules-on-the-right-to-sell-your-digital-games-and-licenses/

Speak of the devil.

What the: That only happened yesterday!

Does someone in this forum have FutureSight or something?


Passing on a game you didnt like is a good idea. Not everyone liked Limbo and handing it to one of your goth friends as a present would be pretty cool.