Conspiracy Theories : You decide.

[Ngati_Grim]

So how DID they do it then?

I have no idea, honestly, but I think that the Official Story stinks and deserves further investigation.
It's all a little too convenient, particularly when you investigate the back story and the other events of the day.

Are you just trying to wind me up?

I know someone who was talking to someone on the phone who was in New York while it was happening.

Events seemed to coincide.

Actually, surprisingly, no I'm not trying to wind you up.
...know someone who was talking to someone....that old chestnut! My brother knows someone who knows someone who was talking to Obama....

Lol.
There was no planes. I mean seriously that is so very ridiculous.

Yes, it's preposterous, which is what they WANT you to think

Seems to me Grim took way way too much acid in the 70s.

I took none in the '70s, or the '80s.
How much is too much?
Have you even looked at the videos, or bothered looking into this beyond what you see here and in the mainstream media?


Anyway, I've got bigger fish to fry.
Here's more John Lennon:

Conspiracy Theories : You decide.

Conspiracy Theories : You decide.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I'm sure he was rich enough to afford a nose job.

[swindle]

Seems to me Grim took way way too much acid in the 70s.

I nominate you for being the best contributer to the forum in 2010

[toofast]

Lol.
There was no planes. I mean seriously that is so very ridiculous.

Yes, it's preposterous, which is what they WANT you to think

Wait so what you are telling me, is you believe that the twin towers were blown up with explosives, but rather than blame it on a terrorist bombing, they put planes into all the amateur footage of the towers going down. And then bribed all the eye witnesses (i would assume it would be done before hand, since if a plane hits the twin towers, first thing most people would do, is call someone. But i suppose if we are believe all the above, wouldn't be too hard to believe the goverment hacked everyones phones using a visual basic gui, and stopped them calling anyone [or even faked the whole convo].), while stop any non bribed person out of the area. While also making sure nobody could see the towers from even the furthest outstretches of the city ( i suppose bribe the whole city). Then somehow bribed all the people in the tower (probably done after, since who would go into the tower knowing they would die[unless all the bodies and peoples deaths was faked]) to tell everyone they saw a plane hit the towers.

[Retardobot]

Wait so what you are telling me, is you believe that the twin towers were blown up with explosives, but rather than blame it on a terrorist bombing, they put planes into all the amateur footage of the towers going down. And then bribed all the eye witnesses (i would assume it would be done before hand, since if a plane hits the twin towers, first thing most people would do, is call someone. But i suppose if we are believe all the above, wouldn't be too hard to believe the goverment hacked everyones phones using a visual basic gui, and stopped them calling anyone [or even faked the whole convo].), while stop any non bribed person out of the area. While also making sure nobody could see the towers from even the furthest outstretches of the city ( i suppose bribe the whole city). Then somehow bribed all the people in the tower (probably done after, since who would go into the tower knowing they would die[unless all the bodies and peoples deaths was faked]) to tell everyone they saw a plane hit the towers.

I'm not taking sides here, but what you have said is a little interesting.

What makes you think that the only way that they could of falsified the footage was to take already captured footage from the public and added planes? That'd be a pretty silly and arse about face way to do it.

Lets say your back is turned, you have your car parked on a street and some guy drives into it, totals it and manages to drive away without you really seeing what happens. All it takes for you to understand what had happened is for someone to come up and say "I saw what happened, a another car crashed into yours". The situation calls for it to be true, it was plausible and driving statistics and crashes already suggest that something like this is very likley to happen.

You're being told something has happened, circumstantial evidence and someones 'word' tells you it's true, so you have no reason to doubt it so your brain takes it as the gospel.  

[Ngati_Grim]

Wait so what you are telling me, is you believe

Don't get ahead of yourself there. I haven't said I believe. I HAVE said that I think it is important to look into alternative possibilities.

In another post I said I think that 911 "has legs" as a conspiracy and re-reiterate that it merits further investigation.

There's still plenty more to post, including some information about the possibility of planes...including remote-controlled planes, NORAD, the Pentagon strengthening, and cetera.

Could I remind you of the title of this thread and my comments in the first post?

[toofast]

I'm not taking sides here, but what you have said is a little interesting.

What makes you think that the only way that they could of falsified the footage was to take already captured footage from the public and added planes? That'd be a pretty silly and arse about face way to do it.

Lets say your back is turned, you have your car parked on a street and some guy drives into it, totals it and manages to drive away without you really seeing what happens. All it takes for you to understand what had happened is for someone to come up and say "I saw what happened, a another car crashed into yours". The situation calls for it to be true, it was plausible and driving statistics and crashes already suggest that something like this is very likley to happen.

You're being told something has happened, circumstantial evidence and someones 'word' tells you it's true, so you have no reason to doubt it so your brain takes it as the gospel.

I meant in regards to the many videos posted on the other page with planes in it (which someone said had planes added to them). But i do get what you are getting at.

Wait so what you are telling me, is you believe

Don't get ahead of yourself there. I haven't said I believe. I HAVE said that I think it is important to look into alternative possibilities.

In another post I said I think that 911 "has legs" as a conspiracy and re-reiterate that it merits further investigation.

There's still plenty more to post, including some information about the possibility of planes...including remote-controlled planes, NORAD, the Pentagon strengthening, and cetera.

Could I remind you of the title of this thread and my comments in the first post?

Wait so the point of this thread is to float very unlikely scenarios by, saying they can't be ruled out, because the very very small chance it could be true.

[Zarkov]

Wait so what you are telling me, is you believe

Don't get ahead of yourself there. I haven't said I believe. I HAVE said that I think it is important to look into alternative possibilities.

In another post I said I think that 911 "has legs" as a conspiracy and re-reiterate that it merits further investigation.

There's still plenty more to post, including some information about the possibility of planes...including remote-controlled planes, NORAD, the Pentagon strengthening, and cetera.

Could I remind you of the title of this thread and my comments in the first post?

C'mon Grim, get off the fence.

On the one hand you like to be regarded as a man of science and an authority on some things.

On the other, you keep postulating that there might be some truth in this lunatic stuff.



It's kind of like saying that the Book of Morman is a provoking read, but I don't wear long pajamas to bed.

[liquidpain]

I highly doubt the government or a secret organisation could pull a stunt like 911 but you shouldn't believe everything they say either. They, the government,tell lies, just like everybody else to cover their asses.

Most people who are conspiracy theory 'field experts" are fucking nuts... grim gave me a website a while back... http://www.abovetopsecret.com that site is full of fucking idiots who feed of each others stupidities.

The US government took full advantage of the situation and invaded Iraq. Most of it was aided by the US media bandwagon.

[Ngati_Grim]

Wait so the point of this thread is to float very unlikely scenarios by, saying they can't be ruled out, because the very very small chance it could be true.

Nope, the point of this thread was to post some Conspiracy Theories. I didn't even bring up 911, but since someone else did I thought it would be interesting to look at other sides than just the Official, seeing as this is a conspiracy thread.

Most people who are conspiracy theory 'field experts" are fucking nuts... grim gave me a website a while back... http://www.abovetopsecret.com that site is full of fucking idiots who feed of each others stupidities.

Yes, there are lots on there that would fit that bill, but there are also others who debate them well and provide really good links.
You just have to choose which threads to follow.

C'mon Grim, get off the fence.

On the one hand you like to be regarded as a man of science (sic) and an authority on some things.

Really? An authority? Those are your words, not mine. I just have a loud voice.
Yes, I'm interested in Science and work in a field that is Scientific.

On the other, you keep postulating that there might be some truth in this lunatic stuff.

I re-re-reiterate that I don't think the Official Story is as truthful as people like to think it is. There are men and women of Science who think that it should be investigated more deeply. The problem is obfuscation, depth of the history behind it, following the paper trail, understanding the background events etc, along with the constant abuse, ridicule, personal attacks and life-threats that people who dig a little are subject to.

Have a look at 'Operation Northwoods', MK-Ultra, the Project for the New American Century etc.

My opinion? I don't know, but I lean away from the official story.

Do I think there were no planes? Personally, no. I just posted some videos from those who do.
Do I think that there was some high-level U.S. involvement? Yes, I think it is a possibility.
I'm not just some flakey, fly-by-nighter. I have looked into this for many years, on and off, both (many) sides of the story and haven't been convinced either way. If that makes me a fence-sitter, so be it.

If you want to couch insults directed towards me under the guise of 'flattery' (man of science) and plain ad hominim (lunatic) then that is your prerogative. I'm trying to take on board what you have mentioned about my drinking habits and poor posts in the past and retain my composure and you will note that I have hardly resorted to getting personal in this thread. I'm trying to approach from a level-headed position and explore possibilities, no matter how unreasonable they may sound to people because, and I'll reiterate, this is a conspiracy thread.

A few times I have posted other potential conspiracies of a more light-hearted nature (i.e. the OP and John Lennon) but people want to keep coming back to 911 and keep it serious. I'm fine with that, but realise that I have been trying to find out information about the events surrounding 911 for years and that my mind isn't made up. It's a complex subject. You can choose to contribute, or you can choose to ridicule.

Personally, I choose to contribute.


So, what about Paul McCartney's ears, eh?

[Zarkov]

Don't be so thin skinned.

I'm not trying to insult you, I just think you're being disingenuous.

You talk about "trying to find out about events surrounding 911" as if there's some serious doubts about what happened, or that something's being hidden from you for some reason.

The corollary of that suggestion is that I'm gullible because I accept the evidence of my senses and intellect.

Perhaps you think the lunar landings were maybe some sort of conjuring trick.

I think that's just not rational.

[Ngati_Grim]

I didn't think I was being thin-skinned (another veiled insult?). I thought it was a well-written reply with some salient points as I see them.

There are serious doubts. That's why there are movements such as 'Architects for 911 Truth' etc...I don't think you're gullible, I just think that , like many, you haven't felt a need to question it because the official explanation worked for you, and as I've repeatedly said, it doesn't work for me. Maybe I come from a less-trusting of authority paradigm? I don't know. All I'm trying to say, (and all I've ever said) is it doesn't seem right to me. You might think it's not rational and you're entitled to your (somewhat misguided?) opinion. I think it is rational to question, especially since the story came out so quickly and certain parts have already been shown to be less than truthful (i.e.the involvement of Osama Bin Laden).

Which brings me to the potential of faked videos of OBL. But I'll leave them for another day.

Of course the Lunar landings occurred...the lunar module can be seen in various mission images (Kayuga/Clementine etc) that have gone there, as well as the mirrors. Though I can post about this as another conspiracy if you would like?

You can try to paint me as a fruitcake and put words in my mouth and that's fine.
I already know that I see things differently than you.

[ChineseKiwi]

Grim, please read this:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Tbh, there far more credible evidence on how the Nuremberg Trials were a total mock trial and questions over the number dead from the Holocaust. But oops, taboo subject and any questioning over the official story and figures = 'Holocaust denier'.

[Zarkov]

You can't be disingenuous and a fruit cake at the same time.

That's the thing about fruit cakes.

They're straight up.

[Ngati_Grim]

Grim, please read this:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

It will take me more than a day so I won't get back about this particular link until I have read it....at least I try to get balanced (both sides) information if I have questions.

Tbh, there far more credible evidence on how the Nuremberg Trials were a total mock trial and questions over the number dead from the Holocaust. But oops, taboo subject and any questioning over the official story and figures = 'Holocaust denier'.

Yes, there are certainly questions regarding Nuremburg. One just has to look at the U.S. welcoming of Nazis into their fold via Operation Paperclip to realise this.

Zarkov, what do you want me to say?
I've said I think planes were involved and I've said I don't think the Official Story stacks up, for me.

You play a good game of man not ball.
Enough to drive a man to drink.

Anyway,time for bed, Alfie is back from the vet and Nurse is home too.

[ChineseKiwi]

Oh yeah this too:

[video]T69TOuqaqXI[/video]

[Meoith]

Really, You know where I get my news from?

I think you filter what you look at in teh very same way that a religious person does, the fact you feel the need to go far out of the way to disbelieve 911 points to that tendency/need.

Care to give me sources?

http://www.iliketojackofftoconspiracytheorys.com, http://www.imarebelbutidontrealiseimatrendfollwingconformistmyself.com etc.

Did I say that America was evil?

I said websites/etc, besides Ive seen your previous posts(for longer than this account has existed), i already have a idea what type of personality/chips on your shoulder you have, you'd sooner visit a "America is always upto no good/evil" filtered web site cos you think thats where the lol@truth lies.

Did I mention where I get my news from?

Why bother its obvious what you subscribe to.

Did I say I relied on one source?

When i say source i mean filtered sources, no trendy conspiracy fan boy can limit themselves to one filtered source obviously.

[Zarkov]

Really, You know where I get my news from?

I think you filter what you look at in teh very same way that a religious person does, the fact you feel the need to go far out of the way to disbelieve 911 points to that tendency/need.

Care to give me sources?

http://www.iliketojackofftoconspiracytheorys.com, http://www.imarebelbutidontrealiseimatrendfollwingconformistmyself.com etc.

Did I say that America was evil?

I said websites/etc, besides Ive seen your previous posts(for longer than this account has existed), i already have a idea what type of personality/chips on your shoulder you have, you'd sooner visit a "America is always upto no good/evil" filtered web site cos you think thats where the lol@truth lies.

Did I mention where I get my news from?

Why bother its obvious what you subscribe to.

Did I say I relied on one source?

When i say source i mean filtered sources, no trendy conspiracy fan boy can limit themselves to one filtered source obviously.

Quit disrespecting Grim.

I personally believe that we're disposed to credulity by our upbringing.

Nurture versus nature if you wish.

Tell us Grim, are you by way of being a Mennonite?

[BerG]

...know someone who was talking to someone....that old chestnut!

What, did you want me to post their names and contact details?

Said person also saw planes.

Oh that's right, they were in on it. Silly me!

[mattnz]

C'mon look at the evidence

As if this plot wasn't sufficiently challenging, there were Truth activists who became persuaded of even more technologically complex possibilities. On the fifth anniversary of the attacks, the New Statesman carried an interview with David Shayler and his partner Annie Machon, the former employees of MI5. The interviewer describes Machon as looking uncomfortable when Shayler decides to reveal his true opinion. “‘Oh f*** it, I'm just going to say this', (Shayler) tells her. ‘Yes, I believe no planes were involved in 9/ll.' But we all saw with our own eyes the two planes crash into the WTC. ‘The only explanation is that they were missiles surrounded by holograms made to look like planes,' he says. ‘Watch footage frame by frame and you will see a cigar-shaped missile hitting the World Trade Center.' He must notice that my jaw has dropped. ‘I know it sounds weird, but this is what I believe.'”

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6187493.ece

[ninjaweedman]

we are all doomed from the get go

[ChineseKiwi]

^

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html#Collapses



nice ninja edit.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

There are serious doubts. That's why there are movements such as 'Architects for 911 Truth' etc...I don't think you're gullible, I just think that , like many, you haven't felt a need to question it because the official explanation worked for you, and as I've repeatedly said, it doesn't work for me. Maybe I come from a less-trusting of authority paradigm? I don't know. All I'm trying to say, (and all I've ever said) is it doesn't seem right to me. You might think it's not rational and you're entitled to your (somewhat misguided?) opinion. I think it is rational to question, especially since the story came out so quickly and certain parts have already been shown to be less than truthful (i.e.the involvement of Osama Bin Laden).

Look, it's fair enough that you think it warrants further investigation, I don't think any one would argue against that.

But the way you come across, by calling people 'misguided' and that they 'happily accept' the official explanation, it puts people on the defensive. You forcing people to take sides, then call them misguided for doing so.

I didn't accept the 'official explanation', I just had the evidence I saw, which was only what I saw in videos of the towers and video's of interviews of people explaining what they saw.

But what I have never seen is any evidence otherwise, nothing at all, to suggest any conspiracy.

[SteddieEddie]

So how DID they do it then?

MAYBE

when FBI agent Ken Williams filed his report that Muslims were having flight training http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0412042phoenix1.html, it didn't get ignored as claimed by the FBI, it was actually followed up. 2 flight schools go on record to say that indeed the FBI had been asking questions about some of the hijackers. http://www.prisonplanet.com/fbi_knew_terrorists_using_flight_schools.html.

So for the sake of my argument lets say that happened. The FBI look into it and that there might be a plot to use aircraft's as a missile. They go to the CIA, as it involves foreign nationals and they do their thing and uncover the plot.

Now the CIA would report to Cheney and he thinks, cool, this is the Pearl Harbour that we have been looking for. We can secure oil, use up a big stockpile of our weapons, making him even richer and get the numbskull George W re elected. I'm sure even the Americans would have got suspicious rigging 2 elections in a row.

So they just keep tabs on the terrorists, but soon realize that their plan will not work as the World Trade centre is designed to withstand planes flying into them. They dispatch a squad of well trained black ops dudes to ensure the towers come down and possibly even help them via remote control to hit the buildings. Lots of pilots have stated it is extremely difficult to aim a plane at a building travelling at 800km/hr.

The black op team sets up quarters in building 7, and carries out it's mission. They then detonate building 7 to cover up their tracks.

[video]LD06SAf0p9A[/video]

So you don't need a cast of thousands to carry this out. A few in government, a few top ranking CIA and FBI officials and the black op team. None of these would ever spill the story as they would be done for treason.

Disclaimer.. I am not saying it did go down like this, just pointing out that you do not need thousands or even hundreds in on this for it to work. I do not believe that aliens have control of our government or our minds. I am not a conspiracy theorist( whatever that means).

I like Grim just think the official story does not stack up( geddit) and have looked into it a little

[ninjaweedman]

heres the official story, entirely possible, I just cannot see how they fell so quickly