Decriminalisation of marijuana

[dirtyape]

Just read a article about the decriminalisation of Marijuana in the US.

I believe that managing the social problems that will arise from decriminalisation or legalisation will likely be easier and cheaper than managing the prohibition. Plus I don't think there is any real reason to have it banned in the first place. Chances are if you want to smoke it then you are already, and therefore prohibition has failed.

Lets put it to the vote.

For those not understanding the difference see below

Decriminalising would make possession a bit like no wearing a seatbelt - a small infringement offence (say $100 fine), with no conviction.  Not legal, but not a crime either.

Legalising would make it like tobacco or alcohol or caffeine.

[Retardobot]

Decriminalisation could potentially take away the 'cool' factor that has some insecure teens reaching for it.

Bosses daughter (15) will on occasion show off that she smokes the dope.

So incredibly sad.

[PrinceTuiTeka]

There is definitely too much money spent on controlling this, and really, alcohol is infinitely worse for the consumer and society as a whole.

[EnjoyTheSauce]

A new stream of tax income for the government.
Less money spent on incarceration for weed offenses.
Less money spent on drug control.
Potentially taking away a major revenue stream for criminals (assuming legit sellers could out compete them).

[Zarkov]

Decriminalize not legalize.

There's a major moral objection to the state being involved in the drug business any way, which it would be if you could sell it.

It's one of the main reasons that the tobacco business is so disgusting.


Grow your own if you're that keen.

[Emrico1]

Lagalise that shit.
Allowing alcohol and tobacco while banning dope is utterly retarded.

[Spork]

^ What he said.

[Zarkov]

Lagalise that shit.
Allowing alcohol and tobacco while banning dope is utterly retarded.

Answer my objections ffs.

[Tandoori]

It's a political issue rather than a health or science one.

The government is increasingly punitive on Alcohol and Tobacco, it would go against the trend of minimizing access and availability of these sorts of substances if they were to decriminalize marijuana.

I am not satisfied by traditional stoner arguments that weed should be decriminalized or legalized on the residual notion that 'we have legal tobacco and alcohol and they're as bad or worse', because all it really argues for is the compounding of more problematic factors.

[Lias]

I believe in decriminalinzg/legalising and taxing the everloving fuck out of all "illegal substances"

[Tandoori]

Which would lead to tax evasion...

Implementing an effective tax system for marijuana in particular would be hopeless if not impossible.

[DeeUnit]

Decriminalise, have state-wide seller depots, tax the fuck outta it. If I could buy a traditional fifty bag for say, $60 or even $70, all because A) it's grown, sold and distributed legally and I won't get pinged for it, I'd sure as fuck buy it, as would all my other mates who have done it.

Used to love having a cone or 10 and just talking for several hours about what we would do with the current penalty system for all those substances.

It really is great stuff. I enjoyed the shit outta it a few years back. Just sort of moved on, havent had any on me for over a year now (sound like some sort of addict lol). But compare that to how many beers or bottles of bevo's you have sitting in your chiller right now, makes you think.

[The Demon Lord]

Which would lead to tax evasion...

Implementing an effective tax system for marijuana in particular would be hopeless if not impossible.

Tax evasion is easier to prosecute than trying to infiltrate a gang, collect enough evidence and then make a bust... (case in point, Tax evasion was how they eventually caught Al Capone)

and I disagree that a tax system for Marijuana would be hopeless - allow a personal concession (a few pants) tax free for personal use, then implement a tiered Tax system, with the aim of getting the Growing, distribution and sale of Marijuana out of the hands of criminals, into the hands of law abiding citizens - everyone wins all around

[Tandoori]

If it's currently economically viable to grow and distribute marijuana on the blackmarket (with all the risk of jail etc), then how does legalisation/taxation and the inevitable increase in price reduce those illicit distributors?

If the tax is anything like cigarettes, it'd be an increase of around 75% in price + GST, plenty of consumers will switch to the blackmarket. And while you could have something similar to prescription medication bottles, there's no real way of identifying the origin of the product once it's in the consumers pocket or zigzags.

Legalise & Tax could work as a way of reducing the costs of drug enforcement, but I don't see how it could actually work to help line the treasury purse, as 'taxing the fuck outta them' might suggest.

[The Demon Lord]

If it's currently economically viable to grow and distribute marijuana on the blackmarket (with all the risk of jail etc), then how does legalisation/taxation and the inevitable increase in price reduce those illicit distributors?

If the tax is anything like cigarettes, it'd be an increase of around 75% in price + GST, plenty of consumers will switch to the blackmarket. And while you could have something similar to prescription medication bottles, there's no real way of identifying the origin of the product once it's in the consumers pocket or zigzags.

Because people don't want to get do something thats illegal - the cost would be passed onto the consumer and so those that are making money from the Growth, distribution and sale would Still make money, except they would be doing it legally without the risk of prosecution/

As for your arguement that lots of people will switch the Black market:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/3641330/Black-market-will-grow-tobacco-companies

in 2010 about 31 million ciggarettes were smoked from the black market - but that only comprises of about 3% total consumption - if we extrapolate that out to Marijuana then assuming that it is double or even triple the black market interest compared to Tobacco - that is still less than 10% of total consumption.

again - if I can do something Legally, for $10-$20 extra as opposed to something illegally for less - I am going to pay the little extra and I dare say that most of your casual pot smokers would be in the same boat, paying a little extra to enjoy a cone at the end of a hard day/week is preferable to taking an unnecesary risk

[Xenolightning]

Decriminalise cheese. That shit is expensive.

[Hmmmgood]

I would like to see it decriminalized but not legalized for various reasons already mentioned.

[Spork]

But how would you know if it was illegal or not? If police came to your house and found a coffee jar of green in it, are they going to trace it back to where it was bought from?

Wether it is legal or not, people will smoke it regardless.

What I find absolute bullshit is responses like Australia's PM Julia Gillard who comes out and says something like 'I will not legalise drugs because they destroy families'.

That's like saying all animals are deadly simply because a shark can kill you.

[Tandoori]

Because people don't want to get do something thats illegal - the cost would be passed onto the consumer and so those that are making money from the Growth, distribution and sale would Still make money, except they would be doing it legally without the risk of prosecution/

As for your arguement that lots of people will switch the Black market:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/3641330/Black-market-will-grow-tobacco-companies

in 2010 about 31 million ciggarettes were smoked from the black market - but that only comprises of about 3% total consumption - if we extrapolate that out to Marijuana then assuming that it is double or even triple the black market interest compared to Tobacco - that is still less than 10% of total consumption.

again - if I can do something Legally, for $10-$20 extra as opposed to something illegally for less - I am going to pay the little extra and I dare say that most of your casual pot smokers would be in the same boat, paying a little extra to enjoy a cone at the end of a hard day/week is preferable to taking an unnecesary risk

Possibly, but the difference between cigarettes (the example used) and marijuana is that weed is illegal already. So the transition to criminal activity doesn't really occur, it already has.

On another note, tobacco isn't a easily grown and cigarettes not easily produced in black market conditions in New Zealand, weed is. If there was a larger supply of readily available illegal cigarettes, I have no doubt that more consumers would buy black market.

But how would you know if it was illegal or not? If police came to your house and found a coffee jar of green in it, are they going to trace it back to where it was bought from?

 
This.
The logistics of enforcing a tax system for weed bemuses me with its pragmatic voids and the implausibility of its implementation relative to the costs that it would bring.

[Oddball]

I wouldn't mind seeing marijuana laws being similar to alcohol laws.

What interests me most is that in Amsterdam it used to be a tourist attraction until it became illegal to sell to foreigners/tourists (I didn't check this officially, pretty much heard it in a few different places, it never interested me that much until now, so correct me if I'm wrong); if NZ was to legalize it, would it be legal for tourists to buy it?

If so, the money gained through tourism, tax, and what not, compared to the money lost through enforcing criminalization, is a huge profit gain, no?

Then of course there's the medical uses, even just stress release if used in moderation. OTOH people who blatantly abuse it in excess become a little bit....... slower. And it's their own fault. I've also noticed people who sit around smoking weed all day never had a decent bit of motivation to get anywhere in life to begin with.

[Emrico1]

I've also noticed people who sit around smoking weed all day never had a decent bit of motivation to get anywhere in life to begin with.

Agree with all of the above.

I've seen people who sit around, drink and smoke all day and they are more than slow, they are fucking grozzzzz.
At least weed just makes them dull numbats instead of raging arseholes, detrimental to everyone around them

[CSfaith]

To legalize pot / drugs in NZ being a rather small country I find would be a grave misjudgement in the way our society would react. Look at the epidemic of Herbs (BZP) aka cow wormer agent. They made available a mind altering drug which is used for drenching livestock. This all of a sudden opens the minds to a bucket load of grad / uni students who otherwise never would have had opportunity of this type of scenario in the 1st place. Then they became illegal and all of a sudden those who have had Pandora’s box opened are now forced to find alternate ways of achieving such highs as were once legal.

Maybe for much larger countries systems like this would work, but what is it like for those countries in the 1st place to take such extreme measures to achieve simplistic reward?
Anyways just my 5 cents as I watch the clock roll down to 5:30 and as always be gentle if my post makes no sense lol. To many thoughts this conversation brings up.

See this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Roll on 5:30 woop

[mattnz]

It's not quite that simple, it's actually more political than a lot of people realise.

New Zealand is a party to the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, which pretty much says what we can and cannot legalise.

Cannabis is firmly on the 'cannot' list, although there have been high-profile calls for a bit of a rethink on drug policy (a la Portugal, already mentioned), given the current tactics in the 'War on Drugs' appear to not be curbing drug use and abuse (e.g. this one from the Global Commission on Drug Policy from June 2011).

It's a bit unfortunate, because it could be argued that the current legislation causes a host of societal ills, a lot of which have already been mentioned. Just under half of New Zealanders have used cannabis, and often people are exposed to criminal activity in acquiring the drug, and these criminal elements can often supply harder, genuinely harmful, drugs. It's that sort of 'gateway effect' thing.

Not to mention that it probably causes a bit of mistrust in the classification of other substances, given that a relatively innocuous drug like cannabis is bundled in with coke and morphine.

[Tandoori]

Since when did UN declarations mean anything? We routinely breach our commitments to Human Rights, youth and indigenous peoples declarations.

[mattnz]

Not officially.