Decriminalisation of marijuana

[Black Heart]

Depends on the person too, I've mates holding down good jobs that puff it, and others that smoke it and hold down a job or do anything productive.

I read this and conclude you're a stoner.

[Spork]

[timmo]

So this new law brought in by Peter Dunn works like this right- Only substances that are proven 'safe' are legal. Therefore, legal substances are proven safe.

Since Alcohol meets the criteria for being 'safe' (since it's legal) and other substances more safe than this are legal or if not legal, have a strong case for being made legal.

So who wants to put Cannabis in a fancy wrapper and get it approved? Ecstasy? LSD? Magic mushrooms etc?.....all drugs which are safer than the drug Alcohol

[420fairy]

i cant believe im gonna say this but i tried that fake shit the other day - far out never again.  was just curious didnt like it at all.  i have smoked a lot of weed over the years but i have never felt so sick and not in control.  fuck that ill stick with the natural shit.

[Spork]

Yea, I've never tried it before, but everything I have heard of it has said that its 100x worse than the good urb.

[Retardobot]

Weed is for stoners.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

So this new law brought in by Peter Dunn works like this right- Only substances that are proven 'safe' are legal. Therefore, legal substances are proven safe.

Since Alcohol meets the criteria for being 'safe' (since it's legal) and other substances more safe than this are legal or if not legal, have a strong case for being made legal.

So who wants to put Cannabis in a fancy wrapper and get it approved? Ecstasy? LSD? Magic mushrooms etc?.....all drugs which are safer than the drug Alcohol

Just because you say it's safer doesn't mean it is.


Now go and find all those studies which claim that Cannabis is safer then Alcohol.

[mattnz]

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/abstract

[timmo]

Just because you say it's safer doesn't mean it is.


Now go and find all those studies which claim that Cannabis is safer then Alcohol.

You are correct, just because I say it's safer does not mean it is.....but, it is.

[deanox]

lets all live in sterile bubbles!

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

lets all smoke in sterile bubbles!

fixed.

[ILoveMescaline]

fixed.

What are we Cavemen?!? Vaporizers :eagerness:

[Lyesalot]

All I know is that many of my mates back from highschool were talented, social, exciting - Had everything going for them
They found weed and now all they do is fuck around all day, no job, have very little going for them and have next to no motivation of changing.

For me that is enough to stay away from it and it's enough for me to support not making it legal.

No scientific link and I'm in no way qualified to back up my opinion but there's no way I want people getting easier access to it.
I'm in no way saying that all stoners are low lifes who have no job etc etc. These mates of mine could have turned out the same way for all I know.

I think I'm just still mad that they invaded my fucking pantry.

[Spork]

I think I'm just still mad that they invaded my fucking pantry.

This is the biggest risk of smoking the urb.

[Tandoori]

Alongside an increased propensity to say things like 'urb' and generally sound like an imbecile.

[ILoveMescaline]

All I know is that many of my mates back from highschool were talented, social, exciting - Had everything going for them
They found weed and now all they do is $#@! around all day, no job, have very little going for them and have next to no motivation of changing.

Anecdotally speaking, all of my friends who used marijuana (myself included) have done very well. Regardless, we shouldn't look at the anecdotal opinions but rather at the current scientific evidence which currently points to marijuana being a relatively safe and low-risk substance. The big question I find myself asking is why isn't our drug policies based on the findings of such research? Then I remember we have a government who prefer to ignore scientific evidence and choose instead to follow ideology. Sigh... :dispirited:

[The Demon Lord]

All I know is that many of my mates back from highschool were talented, social, exciting - Had everything going for them
They found weed and now all they do is fuck around all day, no job, have very little going for them and have next to no motivation of changing.

For me that is enough to stay away from it and it's enough for me to support not making it legal.

No scientific link and I'm in no way qualified to back up my opinion but there's no way I want people getting easier access to it.
I'm in no way saying that all stoners are low lifes who have no job etc etc. These mates of mine could have turned out the same way for all I know.

I think I'm just still mad that they invaded my fucking pantry.

I know what you mean - I had a couple of mates from Highschool exactly the same but on the flip side, I also know people that smoke socially/responsibly and have turned out to be completely awesome people, with careers and drive in life.

Does the Drug make the person change - maybe. is it a particular personality trait/type that makes some people pre-disposed to sedantry when they discover weed - maybe. but I don't feel that is an arguement against responsible use.

[Spork]

What Demon said is very true - at least in my opinion, some people are more likely to bum out if they smoke too much of it, but I don't see why 'idiots' should define the law.

[Tandoori]

Spork's situation is different because he's an Australian, but domestically I don't see the law as being defined by idiots, so much as acting as a preventative measure to stymie proliferation of cannabis usage (namely, by idiots).

It's evident New Zealand has heavy cannabis use, by criminalizing it, people are forced to be subtle with it or suffer the consequences.

The main reason I'm not a proponent of reform in this area (despite having historically indulged in cannabis use) is that it simply isn't required for sensible users.
There are those who would be annoyed with the idea that they should have to flout the laws to enjoy what is considered a relatively benign drug - but most people are criminals in one sense or another.

The justice / cost-of-enforcement side of things is a bit trickier, but this doesn't necessarily require a legislative change so much as a diversion of policy direction within the police - and I think they're best equipped to decide whether or not this needs to happen and when.

The fact is, in New Zealand, you have to be very careless / stupid or particularly unlucky to be charged with possession. For those who enjoy cannabis in a responsible manner, at home, it is almost impossible to get caught (unless there's per-mitigating circumstances).

I would hazard a guess that where people are going to court with a Possession charge, they're also up on other charges. I would also guess that a POC conviction in isolation is not particularly damaging to someone who uses cannabis - other than the travel restrictions which may be imposed thereafter, but this is the risk you take when you decide to indulge.

[The Demon Lord]

the 2 main reasons I am in favour of a law change is this:

if I were to buy my Marijuana fix - I would like to go to a reputable business and buy good quality product. Its one of the things that always annoyed me - if you want to buy, you would have to associated with the lower rungs of society and there was never any guarantees about quality.

even though I would enjoy it responsibly either at my home or in a social context - there is still a risk (albeit very small) of getting caught. admitedly it would be unlikely to come to anything other than a lecture and confiscation but it is more a case that this is a hassle I don't want to deal with.

I hear your arguement about the police diverting attention away from it rather than changing the law - the problem with this is that atm with NZ and its drug structure - Cannabis is often sold and manufactured by people who have ties to other substances. Generally it is used as a way of limiting the distribution of harder drugs by taking out participants on an easy to prove charge rather than spending the time and effort to go for the bigger fish.

[Tandoori]

Fair points, but again the conservative in me is, as yet, unconvinced that reform is required. The status quo has served me well enough over the years that I've not been prompted to seek change.

If I had bothered to check the facts, this would probably change. But in my experience, there's nothing too fucked about our law in this area.

[ILoveMescaline]

Fair points, but again the conservative in me is, as yet, unconvinced that reform is required. The status quo has served me well enough over the years that I've not been prompted to seek change.

If I had bothered to check the facts, this would probably change. But in my experience, there's nothing too $#@!ed about our law in this area.

 

I disagree. Reform IS required as currently if you are charged with possession/use of marijuana it can result in seriously damage your career and future career prospects. I support legalization, but would happily settle for decriminalization of marijuana use/possession/growing. I believe it should be viewed as a health issue rather than a justice issue, as punitive measures means everyone ultimately loses. For all I care they could keep small 'token' fines for people caught with it as long as there are no long-term repercussions: Read criminal record.

This is the silliest thing about it all.

[deanox]

Hori would you be happy to have alcohol made illegal? I see a massive reason for change based on your views.

Government views on this are backwards and hypocritical! Why one substance is illegal and a more problematic drug is not? And what winds me up more is peoples perception towards it, purely on the fact that it is illegal. As far as I'm concerned it is ridiculous to have one over others for no logical reason aside from profit, what do you think would happen if alcohol was illegal? The gangs would be the ones pushing that too, and also I think most criminals consume alcohol!

What makes an alcohol drinker any better than a pot smoker? Absolutely nothing! They are both mind altering depressants. If you were to look at the statistics of alcohol related incidents compared to cannabis, only logic would prevail, and I don't mean charges of cannabis use, possession and sale, I mean the incidents under influence such as assaults, deaths,  injuries,  drink driving causing death or injury,etc.

The status quo is a joke and makes no sense!

[Tandoori]

Hori would you be happy to have alcohol made illegal? I see a massive reason for change based on your views.

Government views on this are backwards and hypocritical! Why one substance is illegal and a more problematic drug is not? And what winds me up more is peoples perception towards it, purely on the fact that it is illegal. As far as I'm concerned it is ridiculous to have one over others for no logical reason aside from profit, what do you think would happen if alcohol was illegal? The gangs would be the ones pushing that too, and also I think most criminals consume alcohol!

What makes an alcohol drinker any better than a pot smoker? Absolutely nothing! They are both mind altering depressants. If you were to look at the statistics of alcohol related incidents compared to cannabis, only logic would prevail, and I don't mean charges of cannabis use, possession and sale, I mean the incidents under influence such as assaults, deaths,  injuries,  drink driving causing death or injury,etc.

The status quo is a joke and makes no sense!

I think you underestimate my radicalism toward alcohol.

I don't think either substance is better than the other, mind you. What I'm saying, is that there is a convention in place - and as yet there is not (in my mind) an overwhelming stack of reasons to overturn this convention (I'd prefer some alteration - i.e. the policy direction I mentioned in previous post).
I don't think it makes sense to say 'alcohol is more benign than cannabis and that is why it is legal (vice versa)', but rather 'both aren't something the state should encourage use of, we already dropped the ball with alcohol, we shouldn't extend our shortcomings in paternalism to cannabis also'.

This isn't a wholely authoritarian view, because as I mentioned earlier, the individual can still use cannabis quite easily if they do so in a manner which isn't obtuse.

What criminalization of cannabis has done, I would argue, is not stain every user with a criminal conviction - but rather, it has set a standard for society which says 'we do not tolerate this drug being used openly and publicly.... however if you're subtle about it you're sweet'.

I would be willing to change my mind depending on the statistics for POC charges and convictions, but I've a feeling my gut instinct isn't too far off.

The caveat of this idea is that it leaves a lot of discretion with the Police - which can be dangerous.

EDIT:

Just to be clear, this is an explanation as to why I'm not marching in the street for cannabis law reform. It's not a comprehensive approach to reform itself, it's simply my understanding and feeling towards the current framework. If I could redesign the policy from scratch, I'd probably take a pragmatic approach rather than a paternalistic one. But as I've said, I'm just not that outraged about how things are currently (and this is coming from someone who has used cannabis). If I get arrested, charged and convicted of POC while using it in my backyard, then I'll be prompted to act.

[420fairy]

Just because you say it's safer doesn't mean it is.


Now go and find all those studies which claim that Cannabis is safer then Alcohol.

*Many people die from alcohol use. Nobody dies from marijuana use. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that more than 37,000 annual U.S. deaths, including more than 1,400 in Colorado, are attributed to alcohol use alone (i.e. this figure does not include accidental deaths). On the other hand, the CDC does not even have a category for deaths caused by the use of marijuana.

*People die from alcohol overdoses. There has never been a fatal marijuana overdose. The official publication of the Scientific Research Society, American Scientist, reported that alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect could lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands of times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands of times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a case of an individual dying from a marijuana overdose. Meanwhile, according to the CDC, hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur the United States each year

*Alcohol use contributes to aggressive and violent behavior. Marijuana use does not. Studies have repeatedly shown that alcohol, unlike marijuana, contributes to the likelihood of aggessive and violent behavior. An article published in the Journal of Addictive Behaviors reported that "alcohol is clearly the drug with the most evidence to support a direct intoxication-violence relationship," whereas "cannabis reduces the likelihood of violence during intoxication

* Clinical trials conducted by the American Marijuana Policy Project, have shown the efficacy of cannabis as a treatment for cancer and AIDS patients, who often suffer from clinical depression, and from nausea and resulting weight loss due to chemotherapy and other aggressive treatments

*Glaucoma, a condition of increased pressure within the eyeball causing gradual loss of sight, can be treated with medical marijuana to decrease this intraocular pressure

*Medical cannabis is also used for analgesia, or pain relief. It is also reported to be beneficial for treating certain neurological illnesses such as epilepsy, and bipolar disorder. Case reports have found that Cannabis can relieve tics in people with obsessive compulsive disorder and Tourette syndrome. Patients treated with tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive chemical found in Cannabis, reported a significant decrease in both motor and vocal tics, some of 50% or more. Some decrease in obsessive-compulsive behavior was also found.  A recent study has also concluded that cannabinoids found in Cannabis might have the ability to prevent Alzheimer's disease.THC has been shown to reduce arterial blockages

*Cannabis is frequently reported to reduce the muscle spasms associated with multiple sclerosis; this has been acknowledged by the Institute of Medicine.

*Jack Herer, a sativa-dominant strain, is effective in relieving anxiety, nervousness, stress and depression. It is also viewed as a motivational medicine, stimulating energy, creativity and concentration

*Cannabis is one of the 50 "fundamental" herbs of traditional Chinese medicine

*Research done by the Scripps Research Institute in California shows that the active ingredient in marijuana, THC, prevents the formation of deposits in the brain associated with Alzheimer's disease. THC was found to prevent an enzyme called acetylcholinesterase from accelerating the formation of "Alzheimer plaques" in the brain more effectively than commercially marketed drugs

*According to a 2007 study at the California Pacific Medical Center Research Institute, cannabidiol (CBD) may stop breast cancer from spreading throughout the body



 

All I know is that many of my mates back from highschool were talented, social, exciting - Had everything going for them
They found weed and now all they do is fuck around all day, no job, have very little going for them and have next to no motivation of changing.

For me that is enough to stay away from it and it's enough for me to support not making it legal.

No scientific link and I'm in no way qualified to back up my opinion but there's no way I want people getting easier access to it.
I'm in no way saying that all stoners are low lifes who have no job etc etc. These mates of mine could have turned out the same way for all I know.

I think I'm just still mad that they invaded my fucking pantry.

Me too - for most its just a phase but there are some that get trapped into the smoking on hay lifestyle - its what the wannabe gangstas etc show you stoners are.  I hope they grow out of it soon.

Seriously Watch What if Cannabis Cured Cancer then continue this conversation - it really is a great watch