Bloody Students!

[D_Unit]

The thing is this government doesn't care about the long term. They are all about the here and now. Anything beyond the current fiscal period is for the next guy to worry about.

How can you say that?


That's Labours way, always has been, always will be. National did jack shit in its first term other than clean up the shitstorm of a mess that Labour left behind. National has always been about the future.

However in saying that, they shouldn't be making cuts to the education sector in the form of removing teachers, nor should they be selling assets.

They should just take away the benefit. Give the students their free education, give the people their free health care, get more teachers.


But get rid of the benefit.

[Pyromanik]

Yeah, trouble is that some people actually legitimately need it to be able to buy food.

It's just everyone else ordering SKY with it that's the problem.

[varkk]

How can you say that?


That's Labours way, always has been, always will be. National did jack $#@! in its first term other than clean up the $#@!storm of a mess that Labour left behind. National has always been about the future.

Like when Labour ran a surplus and paid back a lot of the debt that the government had run up since Muldoon's days, while National called for tax cuts. They established the Cullen Fund and Kiwisaver scheme to help ensure reitrement benefits would still be available years down the track. Last election they talked about raising the retirement age over concerns of the affordability of the system. Where as National has cut income taxes for the top, increased other taxes and charges paid by everyone and run up a large debt to do so. Which one was about the future and which one about rewarding themselves  now?

[Pyromanik]

Both.

[Black Heart]

I love it  when people rage about Muldoon, seeing every single one of his think big projects still runs today, in the black, and have directly employed thousands of people. His debts were at least on tangible things that made returns. What the fuck have any governments since created ? (And no relabelling/branding/imaging do not count as creations).

[Tandoori]

I love it  when people rage about Muldoon, seeing every single one of his think big projects still runs today, in the black, and have directly employed thousands of people. His debts were at least on tangible things that made returns. What the fuck have any governments since created ? (And no relabelling/branding/imaging do not count as creations).

Absolutely, his interventionism is to be applauded. But you now have an economically liberal National party - there's not much comparison.

Muldoon's biggest fail was his refusal to not de-value the currency in the 80s, and subsequently lost hundreds of millions of dollars in reserves.

You've got to give credit to Labour for the Cullen Fund - which pays for Muldoon's promised superannuation.

[Demandred]

. Last election they talked about raising the retirement age over concerns of the affordability of the system.

And they are still talking about this and other parties are jumping on the same band wagon - but funny how they are all talking about bringing it in round 2020 - not tomorrow - so it is a waste and just grandstanding on an issue that isnt relevant today or even for the current term of government as the next 2 terms could change the date anyway.

Parties should be addressing issues that are relevant and able to make change on today and retirement age isnt one of them

[Tandoori]

And they are still talking about this and other parties are jumping on the same band wagon - but funny how they are all talking about bringing it in round 2020 - not tomorrow - so it is a waste and just grandstanding on an issue that isnt relevant today or even for the current term of government as the next 2 terms could change the date anyway.

Parties should be addressing issues that are relevant and able to make change on today and retirement age isnt one of them

 
I think you grossly misunderstand this issue.

The problem with implementation is that it has to be phased in, so that people who're 64 today aren't affected - or grey power will be on your front lawn with pitchforks and a stake to burn you at.

It is extremely relevant today, because our inaction now will cost us dearly down the track.

[Black Heart]

hehe, the problem with pensions is the cost. the problems with every solution is the opposition to them. Thats why they discuss raising the age now, so people get used to the idea before they do it. There is always someone whose going to be affected by shifting the goal posts. They need a mult-headed solution, not just raise the age, they also need asset testing. we could also use a capital gains tax, on secondary property, and get rid of family trusts. Theres no point in implementing only part of that strategy because the current system has too many loop holes. Good luck with that happening, because the govt that does this will be out. And the next govt will get in on promises to undo it. I pity the people who are counting on their kiwisaver fund to pay their rent in 2050.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I pity the people who are counting on their kiwisaver fund to pay their rent in 2050.

Why, what happens to my Kiwisaver in 2050?

[varkk]

Naitonal raids it to pay for another subsidy for a private school in 2045

[Black Heart]

Your pittance contributions from 50 years ago are going to look rather anemic, in even the best case scenario. God forbid we are living longer too.

[Bell]

In Australia they are looking to raise the minimum super contribution to %12 because its current level of %9 won't be enough for people to live on.
Now look at kiwisaver....

Gen Y in NZ is fucked long term.
High levels of debt, a pathetic amount of super and the burden of paying the healthcare costs of the baby boomers going into retirement who will live for along time passed 65

[Demandred]

I think you grossly misunderstand this issue.

The problem with implementation is that it has to be phased in, so that people who're 64 today aren't affected - or grey power will be on your front lawn with pitchforks and a stake to burn you at.

It is extremely relevant today, because our inaction now will cost us dearly down the track.

Appreciate your comments but I am aware that policies, in most cases need to be phased.

The main point I was making was to do with no political party is suggesting bringing the age in in the very near future, only about lowering it by a year or so - which still makes it close to 2020, when most discussion has been around what the super bill will look like by 2016

I dont go into big diatribes here as I dont see the point but I consider my original point still stands

[Black Heart]

In Australia they are looking to raise the minimum super contribution to %12 because its current level of %9 won't be enough for people to live on.
Now look at kiwisaver....

Gen Y in NZ is $#@!ed long term.
High levels of debt, a pathetic amount of super and the burden of paying the healthcare costs of the baby boomers going into retirement who will live for along time passed 65

Thats not actually going to happen, health care is running at or above capacity, it'll get over laden, and old people will die. when a chunk of baby boomers die the burden will lift almost immediately, assets will change hands and the gen Y will inherit all they covet.

[Bell]

But you need to look at who will be controlling the political system.
Who votes the most? Old people
Who will be one of the biggest population brackets when the Baby boomers reach retirement? Old people

Therefore old people issues aka Health care will become a massive political issue and the parties that can pander to the baby boomers the most will gain alot of political power.
The healthcare system will get far more attention when the boomers start caring about it, which is when they are scared of dying.

Therefore Gen Y during the peak of their productivity and earning potential will be under increasing pressure from higher taxes.
Meanwhile the housing market will crash because the baby boomers will be cashing in their assets for their retirement holidays, which will be too late for most of Gen Y because they will have already saddled themselves up with debt from overpriced housing that is now worth less than they brought it for.

There is still 15-20 years to go before the boomers start dying on mass their average life expectancy is now what around 80?
That takes most Gen Yers to around 45 before they are released from the healthcare burden.

And this pattern will be repeated across most Western nations so buckle up kids this economic bullshit is just getting started.

[Zarkov]

That's as may be.

But who will look after your kids when they're driving you nuts?

[private_hell]

That's as may be.

But who will look after your kids when they're driving you nuts?

robots

[Black Heart]

IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity. Theres no real reason a house should sell for more than land value + building value. And buildings deteriorate, not gain in value unless you've renovated. If we treated cars like houses, we would be spending $3k on a paintjob, and then be selling the car for $5k more than before the paintjob.

[The Demon Lord]

IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity. Theres no real reason a house should sell for more than land value + building value. And buildings deteriorate, not gain in value unless you've renovated. If we treated cars like houses, we would be spending $3k on a paintjob, and then be selling the car for $5k more than before the paintjob.

step 1: Go to the rest of the world
step 2: try and find a house there that has the following:
-Within 10-20 minutes drive of a nice beach
-Within 10-20 minutes of a Major City Centre
-is off a main road and in a 'private' area
-is in an area with little crime
-has more than 1 bedroom
-is in a country that enjoys political stability
-has all the first world convieniances
-Has a medium to large backyard/section
Step 3: Realise that the Housing market in NZ is dirt cheap compared to international prices and so the housing market will never return to Sanity, because when Mr overseas immagrant can buy for the equivilent of a Palacial mansion for half to a third the price he would have to pay in his own country - the NZ housing market will continue to go up as it stops being under-valued....

[Retardobot]

Step 1: Go to the rest of the world
Step 2: Try and find a house that wasn't built by shotty, cheap, short-cutting builders that leads to black mould and a cold, damp environment.
Step 3: Found one.

Fixed.

[Bell]

Step 3: Realise that the Housing market in NZ is dirt cheap compared to international prices and so the housing market will never return to Sanity, because when Mr overseas immagrant can buy for the equivilent of a Palacial mansion for half to a third the price he would have to pay in his own country - the NZ housing market will continue to go up as it stops being under-valued....

South America?
Also the rich people are generally rich because they are working or running businesses in high income economies, they don't want to move to NZ because then they wouldn't be as rich.
So just because NZ is oh so awesome doesn't mean everyone is going to buy up all the housing, if the NZ public cant afford high rental prices then investor returns aren't going to be any better when buying 3 NZ houses compared a million dollar apartment in New York.

NZ to rich people from the worlds big cities is sort of like Vanuatu to us, its beautiful, cheap and quiet but you probably don't want to live there.

[Pyromanik]

robots

I can almost agree with that.
But robots don't got tits. Essential for many important tasks, some even to do with children.



Also, NZ housing market is retardedly over expensive compared to NZ income.
Of course over seas buyers can afford a mansion, their buying power is often doubled just by buying in NZ dollars.
And what Rii said.

[Bell]

IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity.

Yes it should but as I said it will be far too late for most of Gen Y, they will end up with $500,000 loans on a house worth $300,000

[private_hell]

I can almost agree with that.
But robots don't got tits. Essential for many important tasks, some even to do with children.

not yet they dont - but im sure that someone will invent it - im looking at you japan