Bloody Students!

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

If they really wanted to stop student bullshit, they'd just cut the allowance. Go loan or go home.

I agree. The student allowance should be cut completely, and the weekly living allowance (from the loan) should increased to compensate.

It doesn't effect a students financial situation in any way whether they have an allowance or loan, they still get the same amount of money in the pocket each week either way.

And once they are working full time, they can pay it back.

[Bounty Hunter]

teh $187 you can currently can borrow is a joke.

I get $247 a week for free, we're budgeting $50pw in my flat for all food, and bills (power and ninjanet) plus my rent is $105 (which is so fucking really low in chch outside of the hoods at the moment)

This year though I'm going 100% full time student, no part time weekend work, which should be interesting for my marks and for my lifestyle, usually I earned sort of $100 to $150 a week which was a nice little bit extra.

I might follow some leads and see if I can pick up some part time work, my current job finishes in a week, but I'm the only one trained to use the machine I use....soooooo???

I am about to go spend the bulk of my course related costs on a pair of solid, comfy new shoes, a weather proof rain jacket, new push bike helmet, and lights, I also need to do some work to my push bike too as it will be my main mode of transport this year.

I also bought a breadboard and some components, I'm also going to buy an arduino and a few breakout boards all for actual education and development of ideas.

[Pyromanik]

they still get the same amount of money in the pocket each week either way.

Whaaaat. The kids who got allowance got a dickload more expendable cash than I did. Enough to get a box of beer into them most nights of the week while I sat around sober and wondered how to make up the extra $15 that was needed for my rent (holiday jobs mostly).

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Yes, allowance does get a bit more, which is even more unfair.

I said the weekly loan payments should be increased to compensate.

[Pyromanik]

mmm, I agree.

[jelly456]

Thanks for giving information

[Pyromanik]

Expected an interesting semi-related factoid from Tiwa.
Am disappoint.

[toofast]

Seems like tiwa's necros are on the down, and bot necros are on the up.

[Pyromanik]

This was a very intelligent bot.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

ok, now we have bots applying for student loans.


They'll still be smarter then most students.

[Pyromanik]

So anyway soon repayment goes up from 10% to 12%.
It's like an April fools joke, only not.

But hey, pay it off faster I guess.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

But hey, pay it off faster I guess.

And this is good how?


But anyway, it's only 2%, not much.

[Speakman]

Compulsory paying it back faster, while removing any benefit for voluntarily paying back faster


scumbag steve student loan policy

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!

Get back to studying!

The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest

If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.

[Bounty Hunter]

PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!

Get back to studying!

The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest

If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.

Fucking arts students....

[Codex]

Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh

[The Demon Lord]

Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh

I got no problem with Student allowances, or even student loans, or even wiping someones student loan provided they got a job in the field that they studied, in NZ within a certain time period (which is my Idea).

I still have a problem with people that think that a university degree somehow is equal to 3-5 years work experience and that they should be able to jump straight into a job.

That said - I know of a friend who did costume design at uni - graduated at the top of the class, and did walk into a job in her field - everyone else in the class walked into a minimum wage job. There is something to be said about doing a degree that maybe has 1-2 job opportunities a year, in a class of 30-40, and then wondering why you can't get a job when you didn't finish at the top of your class.

[Codex]

^Yeah have been working for years and now going to go to uni, doing things a bit backwards lol

[Bounty Hunter]

Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh

I got no problem with Student allowances, or even student loans, or even wiping someones student loan provided they got a job in the field that they studied, in NZ within a certain time period (which is my Idea).

I still have a problem with people that think that a university degree somehow is equal to 3-5 years work experience and that they should be able to jump straight into a job.

That said - I know of a friend who did costume design at uni - graduated at the top of the class, and did walk into a job in her field - everyone else in the class walked into a minimum wage job. There is something to be said about doing a degree that maybe has 1-2 job opportunities a year, in a class of 30-40, and then wondering why you can't get a job when you didn't finish at the top of your class.

I think the government should scale fees, interest, loan caps, something, against the demand for jobs in that field as well as their own policies etc.

National is getting behind technology, science and engineering in New Zealand, as such it should be cheap as chips (but fucking hard) to get a degree in maths, science or engineering. And more expensive to get a degree in American Film History or Linguistics etc.

Bit of PID control and she'll be sweet.

[Pyromanik]

Fucking arts students....

Oi.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I have no problem with someone choosing to study art.


What I have a problem with, is when, instead of studying, they go protest about stupid things.


Students have a pretty good deal in this country, probably better then anywhere else in the world. Uni fees are already heavily subsidized by the government. And for the remaining amount that students have to pay, the government gives them a free loan to pay it.

[Tandoori]

PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!

Get back to studying!

The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest

If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.

The kids are alright. Let them have their fun.

Spoiler :

1. Not accepting the premise that students face some greater obligation to get jobs than anyone else: a one-off event like a protest isn't equatable to the time required for even the most intermittent employment. If a student attends a number of protests throughout the year the total hours involved would be inconsequential, even at the margin.
2. I doubt these students are 'the poor' whose alleged victimisation they're protesting against, it would seem to be more of a show of support for those folks. Let's generalize that poor people ain't got no time for, or much interest in, protesting.
3. Why should a certain group in society (students) be limited in exercising their political freedoms? Why are students expected to spend their free time differently to others? Because that they're receiving taxpayer support (through subsidized tuition fees, income supplements or interest write-offs)? If so, what about the corresponding benefits of skilled labour on economic growth and why don't we hear of similar obligations for middle-class recipients of Working For Families? What about unhealthy people and the cost they place on the health system? Ad nauseum.

A bunch of students went out to protest against government policy, some crossed the line and got arrested. It's hardly the biggest burden on the tax system.

[Lias]

I have a problem with some degrees (arts potentially being one of them)

Subsidized tertiary study should ONLY be available for courses which lead directly to employment. By all means let people do BA's in toenail clipping studies, but make them pay full price (IE what international students pay).

[Pyromanik]

So what you're saying is that people shouldn't think, wrote learn all the things and boom, everything will explode.
Sounds like high school. Who remembers that?
It sure gave me the necessary skills I needed to enter adult life (100% sarcasm).

[Tandoori]

I have a problem with some degrees (arts potentially being one of them)

Subsidized tertiary study should ONLY be available for courses which lead directly to employment. By all means let people do BA's in toenail clipping studies, but make them pay full price (IE what international students pay).

Very few degrees lead directly to employment. You have to compete for almost any job.

What degrees provide good job prospects is a product of the state of the economy at a given time. Some jobs, of course, are more exposed when there's economic downturns. Other jobs are key drivers of economic innovation and growth (we see this reflected in the additional subsidies STEM receives).
We ought to be careful though, in thinking that 'arts' aren't worthwhile pursuits.
Here's what a majors are available for Bachelor of Arts degrees at Otago, Canterbury, Auckland and Victoria.
There's a lot of coherence between these offerings and occupations with fair to high job prospects according the the Department of Labour's Occupation Outlook

There is a case to be made that we over-subsidise tertiary studies, or that we have inefficient subsidies (like the blunt interest-free policy) which incentivise people into areas which are not very beneficial. Fine Arts would be the common exemplar used by some but there are some counter arguments from things like http://supportthearts.co.uk. In short you might intimate the value of the Arts through the John Adams quote:

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.

The idea is that, in the long-run, Arts' contribution to society and economy is to promote innovation and prevent cultural stagnation. That may not be sufficient to get us to fork out our cash though.

On the other hand, we still subsidise lots of things which are far less beneficial like stadiums, royal tours and yacht races. Maybe the discussion needs to shift away from cuts to education funding, towards cuts to funding extravagance?

Here's some figures nicked from Budget 2013 using wheresmytaxes.co.nz, they're quite nifty and are calucated on a per capita basis, to give you a more 'real' understanding of fiscal policy:

Government Incomes: $17,006 per capita
Includes:
$236.31   (⇧36%)   Student Loans - Receipts
$131.89   (⇧22%)   Interest on Impaired Student Loans

Government Expenses: $18,652 per capita
Includes:
$458.95   (⇧0.9%)   Tertiary Education: Student Achievement Component

$134.39   (⇩8.1%)   Student Allowances
$352.56   (⇩2.1%)   Student Loans

We could save $563.69 by getting rid of the Defence forces (How much do they contribute to economic growth?. That'd cover the costs of Loans and Allowances, and leave $76.74 left over for expanding Civil Defence capability?

Spoiler :

$76.64   (⇩3.3%)   Naval Combat Forces
$76.08   (⇩8.0%)   Land Combat Forces
$72.19   (⇧19%)   New Zealand Defence Force - Capital Expenditure
$57.39   (⇧5.4%)   Fixed Wing Transport Forces
$50.21   (⇧60%)   Rotary Wing Transport Forces
$48.16   (⇧0.9%)   Land Combat Support Forces
$41.36   (⇧11%)   Airborne Surveillance and Response Forces
$37.80   (⇧5.3%)   Land Combat Service Support Forces
$28.56   (⇩0.1%)   Naval Patrol Forces
$22.61   (⇧0.1%)   Naval Support Forces
$19.64   (⇧1.2%)   Naval Helicopter Forces
$18.21   (⇧8.0%)   Special Operations Forces
$14.84   (⇧10%)   Operationally Deployed Forces Annual

Alternatively, we might start looking at something like Superannuation.

$2323.31   (⇧6.8%)   New Zealand Superannuation

How much would that be reduced by means-testing?