Bloody Students!

[O-L-W-A-G]

If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.

[toofast]

If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.

What a stupid idea. Do you you even know how grades work?

[Tandoori]

What a stupid idea. Do you you even know how grades work?

I'm sure it's a sensible idea, if you're from an NCEA background.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.

Stupid idea.

And you already get your student loan funding cut if you fail a certain percentage of your papers in a year.

[The Demon Lord]

For me - the ideal situation would be something along the lines of the following:

After finishing university you have a 5 year period in which to find a job in the area that you studied (in NZ) and provided you stay in that field for another 5 year period, your Student loan is erased:

If an art student gets an Art degree and becomes a curator of an Art museum after 2 years - the Tax money that I have paid to put that student through uni and into a Career, I like to think of an investment in the future of the country which I do not mind paying.

however if someone gets a degree in theoretical physics but gets a job as an insurance salesman - then they can pay back the money that was used to get their Degree.

Yes there are many holes with the idea (not least of which if it where to be put into effect, the amount of job description fraud/corruption that would occur so people could claim that the line of work they were in uses their degree would be horrendous) but the esscence of the idea I believe is good. I don't mind paying for other people to go through university, get a higher level of Education and then take a job in that line of work - IMO the reward that society gets from having more higher-educated people in jobs that are in their field outweighs the cost of educating them in the first place.

Something else that is also relevant to add here:

Someone I know who has a degree in a specialized field of engineering who also runs their own company that does work in this specialized field once told me this:

On an average day at work, he uses only about 5% of the things that he learnt at University, however occasionally a task will come along when he needs to reference or at least understand the other 95% that he did and it is on these days that his degree is worth its weight in Gold.

Some jobs don't require tertiery education, Some jobs require a degree, Some jobs it is a nice to have and Some jobs really don't require it, but they think they do...

[Black Heart]

^that sounds like spending $10,000 in admin costs, chasing $10.Then there'd be the loopholes. ie if your insurance guy specialised in insurance for physics labs ?

[The Demon Lord]

^that sounds like spending $10,000 in admin costs, chasing $10.Then there'd be the loopholes. ie if your insurance guy specialised in insurance for physics labs ?

As I said, there are many many many possible loopholes that I can see, but if it were possible to implement it in a way that didn't have these loopholes then I think it would work nicely

[varkk]

The trouble with that idea is that it is incredibly narrow minded. The finance industry for instance targets people with Mathematics and theoretical physics degress as they have the knowledge and ability with numbers etc which many with a degree in finance are just unable to grasp. The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.

[Black Heart]

No it's worse than idiotic. it wont solve any issues with the costs of education, it just punishs people for finding their talents & interests weren't what they thought they were when they were young & dumb.

[Emrico1]

Inb4 conscription

[Spigalau]

Inb4 conscription

Would prefer castration for some of the current crop of NCEA wonder kids.

[The Demon Lord]

The trouble with that idea is that it is incredibly narrow minded. The finance industry for instance targets people with Mathematics and theoretical physics degress as they have the knowledge and ability with numbers etc which many with a degree in finance are just unable to grasp. The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.

There is something very wrong with a Financial degree then if someone who passes it is unable to grasp....

And it isn't about punishing people - its about society:

an Educated person doing a job in the field that they studied is a great thing and IMO throughout their life time, they will pay society back through Taxes and general improving society - for these people, they should get free education, because in the end society reaps the benefits of having more educated people in a particular field.

If someone wants to get a degree for the sake of having a degree, because they thought they might like to do that, to look impressive on their CV, I have no problem with this. I just expect these people to pay for the privledge of having a degree that isn't being used to benefit society

[Retardobot]

an Educated person doing a job in the field that they studied is a great thing and IMO throughout their life time, they will pay society back through Taxes and general improving society - for these people, they should get free education, because in the end society reaps the benefits of having more educated people in a particular field

Weren't you just advocating experience over education?

Society.

[Aloysius]

I like how this thread turned into a discussion about the new catchphrase for looking down your nose at someone.
I believe it involves the phrase "sense of entitlement."

[The Demon Lord]

Weren't you just advocating experience over education?

Society.

nope - I was advocating people who are prepared to take bottom rung job in an industry that is relevant to their degree in order to gain the necessary experiance needed to get the higher paying jobs.

as opposed to those who come out of uni and expect to be gifted a 60 k a year job without any industry experiance

[Tandoori]

I think the fundamental misunderstanding you seem to express in the earlier post about targeted area loan-rates, is that a degree has a 'set'  industrial application.

Any degree is relevant to almost any industry, and that simply because the degree has an area with which it has a greater affinity (i.e. LLB to Lawyer/Practice) doesn't mean it doesn't have a million different other signifcantly valuable applications also. (i.e. LLBs can make good media spokespersons or  a polsci degree to investment banking).

You can't exactly install punitive or diversive measures to prevent people working outside of their 'given field' for a number of reasons. A) That 'given field' is arbitrary - if you were to compile a schedule of the skills learned in any degree, the cross over with other degrees from different disciplines would be huge, B) Analytical skills learned in any degree should have application across almost any field, C) It wouldn't be econimically beneficial to society as not only would it reduce the flexibility grads have in choosing their industry, it would also reduce the flexbility from the demand side of the labour market, in terms of which graduates industries can feasibly employ.

Varkk has hit it on the head

The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.

[Black Heart]

A society that bases a persons worth on their monetary contribution is shit. U can keep it, at least the baby boomers had better values than you.

[O-L-W-A-G]

Do you you even know how grades work?

Yes, A is greater than B which is in turn greater than C and so on.

And you already get your student loan funding cut if you fail a certain percentage of your papers in a year.

That I didn't know

In case my point wasn't clear enough the whole point is that better performing students are rewarded over the long run increasing the average quality of each students knowledge by controlling the interest rates via grades. Less of them would be on the streets and actually studying instead of just wasting money which could be better spent on other things or collecting interest in some sort of investment......John Key.

[mattnz]

I don't think that you have enough life experience to make a reasoned contribution here.

[Pyromanik]

Fair enough.

But I bet most of those protesting students are still studing, and don't actually have to pay it back yet.

The ones who are paying it back are too busy working to waste time standing on a street protesting.


What is a bit silly, I think, is that they removed the voluntary repayment bonus. Which takes aways the only incentive to actually pay any more then the minimum amount.

Funny to say that.
Everyone fucking voted Labour for one reason and one reason only when they blatently BRIBED the entire country's student populace with a student loan ease up.

Also, I did a BA.
I get paid well.
It is my first job out of uni.
I do not begrudge paying a loan.
What I do begrudge is watching every drunk fuckwit running around partying hard on taxpayer money because their parents bullshitted on some form to enable them to receive the allowance. I worked hard, and I barely got by. I have no idea how one affords to get pissed as fuck every weekend, but I do know that it is fully taken for granted. Those whinging need to simply harden the fuck up.

I'm not against loans and allowances, I actually believe that what is currently paid is not enough. I do however believe that allowance is far too easy to get, and that the loan living costs is far too little. It may have changed in recent years, but that is how I felt when I left uni.
I still have over 30k left on my loan, but paying it back faster is CERTAINLY not something I begrudge. I'd rather welcome it. It may mean less disposable income each payday, but I seriously doubt I'd even notice the difference of a measely 2¢.

[Tandoori]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/auction-469405592.htm

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH

*sigh*

Ha.

Spoiler :

It has had a supercharger mounted up to the 6 cylinder engine, although not connected for boost. The belt drives the supercharger, so it still makes the right noise, but the engine itself it not force fed. Gets a massive amount of looks!!

[Zarkov]

Why would anyone build a car like that?

[Emrico1]

Not to mention that it is a dirty 6 posing as a 351 :/ All for show, what a wank.
Comes with a free mullet, blue tank top and a zz-top cassette, all at no extra charge.

[Black Heart]

maybe the builder was an art student, and it's a powerful message shrouded in anguish.

[Emrico1]

maybe the builder was an art student, and it's a powerful message shrouded in anguish.

THIS

It's a metaphor for the bogun. Acting all tough and showy while having nothing much under the hood.