Israel/Palestine conflict

[Aloysius]

Oh sorry, I thought you applied for a job in Georgia while out of the country. ie taking a break from ballot stuffing in Georgia by holidaying in the middle east (I didn't examine the post dates)

Yea I wouldn't want to be a Palestinian when any military brigade rolls in :S
Something has to fill in the headlines I guess.

[Bell]

The general Israeli solider in the west bank is normally pretty decent they are always really young and are put in a shitty situation by having to defend settlers.
They always seemed really bored and more interested in checking their iPhones for messages than causing trouble.

[Bell]

Well this is new a rocket just hit the west bank a couple of Kms away from my girlfriend, she heard the bang.
Apparently it was aimed at the Israeli parliament building but that's a pretty stupid move considering the area is surrounded by Palestinians.

[private_hell]

i also wonder what would have happened if olde Mitt had won the election last week - i suspect that this might have played out differently

[Aloysius]

Really? I speculate it would be the same. Unless you're thinking there is an element of wolf crying in Israel's actions, aimed at the US. That there is something more they want from the US that MITTens would have given and Obama is not.

I suspect it will end with some small victory for Israel, at the cost of some bloodshed and international goodwill for Israel. Bearing in mind I know nothing

[BeNZene]

i also wonder what would have happened if olde Mitt had won the election last week - i suspect that this might have played out differently

Why?  Mitt & the Republicans would support Netanyahu/Isreal more firmly than Obama would, but it's hard to see how Isreal is pulling its punches at the moment.

[Black Heart]

I heard the western back Fatah palestinian faction fired the rockets, and israel are taking ot hamas people anyway.

[Zarkov]

If none of them believed in an afterlife, it would probably play out a little differently.

[Bell]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/11/15/nr-life-in-gaza-strip-seshay-intv.cnn

[Bell]

sigh.....

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai says "the goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years," according to Israel's Haaretz website.

[Bell]

One more before bed.

Israel's foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman: "The only way we can achieve peace and security is to create real deterrence via a crushing response that will make sure they don't try to test us again," he said. "This isn't an all-out war, but an operation with defined goals." If a ground invasion was authorised, Israel would have to "see it through," he said. "This wasn't done during Operation Cast Lead [the 22-day war four years ago], which is why we failed to achieve our goal."

[The Demon Lord]

One more before bed.

Ah MAD - worked real well from the 1950s to 1980s.....

[private_hell]

Why?  Mitt & the Republicans would support Netanyahu/Isreal more firmly than Obama would, but it's hard to see how Isreal is pulling its punches at the moment.

since obama/US is moving out of the middle east as they see the pacific at the more pressing/important - this could be a way to remind obama that he cant leave the middle east

[BeNZene]

Ah MAD - worked real well from the 1950s to 1980s.....

It is scary how close it got at times.  This sends shudders down my spine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

since obama/US is moving out of the middle east as they see the pacific at the more pressing/important - this could be a way to remind obama that he cant leave the middle east

I guess that is possible.  But I don't think Obama is moving out of the Middle East anytime soon. Between Oil, the Suez Canel, and Iran there is plenty of reason for the Middle East to be a strategic concern for a long time to come.

[Zarkov]

You missed the Cuban missile crisis.

If you think the future looks gloomy now, it's positively rosy by comparison.

[Arnifix]

Ah MAD - worked real well from the 1950s to 1980s.....

It would only be MAD if both sides had the ability to destroy each other. What the fuck can Palestine actually do to Israel? Fuck all.

[Bell]

I'm really digging TYT's commentary atm.

[The Demon Lord]

It would only be MAD if both sides had the ability to destroy each other. What the fuck can Palestine actually do to Israel? Fuck all.

Palestine in themselves - not a lot, but when you include all the Arab countries that have had bones to pick with Israel then it becomes a lot more of a level playing field.

The Arabs know that in terms of military hardware, the Israelis have the edge and so generally try not to get involved but if Israel stepped over the very thing line, then they might join the fray

[Arnifix]

I'm really digging TYT's commentary atm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEkEUcb2Y4

Does anyone else see the video? I see the code when quoting your post bell, but can't see the video at all.
 

Palestine in themselves - not a lot, but when you include all the Arab countries that have had bones to pick with Israel then it becomes a lot more of a level playing field.

The Arabs know that in terms of military hardware, the Israelis have the edge and so generally try not to get involved but if Israel stepped over the very thing line, then they might join the fray

Haha, I think it is highly unlikely. That would more than likely start WW3 given Americas massive investment in Israel and the fact they're already tooling up for a war on Iran. Then we have Russia who would be totes down. Hell even China might join in.

And let's not delude ourselves. Israel is the only middle eastern state (excluding Pakistan sort of) that has nuclear weapons. I don't see the other Arab states doing anything except posturing. Poor Palestinians.

[Aloysius]

The youtube vid pops up as an embedded video as normal for me. I only watched a minute of it though. It didn't really 'grab' me.

[Arnifix]

Also, is there actually some independent source confirming the number of rockets being fired at Israel? Or is everyone just taking that shit at face value? I'm seeing lots of pictures of airstrikes but not of rocket impacts. Also do we have any idea what sort of rockets? I've heard everything from military RPGs to homemade rockets with grenades on the end.

 Thanks aloysius

[Aloysius]

NP. No idea, but might be interesting.

It's amazing how much coverage this gets in comparison to Syria. 5 days vs more than a year. 50 ISH casualties v 50,000 ISH.

I guess the difference is there is a greater chance of it having the potential to involve other nations, whereas Syria is just in a civil war and it's in the too hard basket for the US.

[winter]

This shit is scary man, seeing all of these dead kids really hits home when you actually have a child..

I'm not well informed on the current Israel/Palestine situation apart from what I'm seeing on the News and what have you, which so far has been PALESTINE BAD, ISRAEL GOOD and vice versa,
Is there a distinctive 'bad' guy in this situation? one channel is playing up Israel civilians being hit by rockets and the next minute it's the opposite?

What's the gist? or could I chime back to 5th form Social studies, Israel vs Palestine and add 40 years onto the dates?

also, for extra points, isn't Hamas a terrorist organization (again, to the extent of my knowledge, extreme baby brain still) so their leader being assassinated would be a 'good' thing? yes?

I'm so confused

[monpepe]

They are all as bad as each other in that region of the world. Israel does not help the cause when they cause mass collateral damage in their response which is not proportionate to what they received and seem to trying to make the situation worse atm. Election next year I assume.

"It's amazing how much coverage this gets in comparison to Syria. 5 days vs more than a year. 50 ISH casualties v 50,000 ISH."

Syria is terrible. Both sides are committing atrocities on one another (however the ruling regime is worse) and civilians who align with either side tend to be the direct victims  (not via collateral damage.)

[Bell]

also, for extra points, isn't Hamas a terrorist organization (again, to the extent of my knowledge, extreme baby brain still) so their leader being assassinated would be a 'good' thing? yes?

They are also the elected government so it's not as simple as equating them to Osama and friends.
There is also good reason to believe they have been a lot more moderate than many other groups in gaza, Hamas only launched rockets 3 times this year (before this Israeli Operation) generally in response to an assasinations.