Is this the simplest political decision so far this year?

[Tandoori]

as a citizen we are all entitled to our opinion, we are not always right and I will question, don't learn otherwise.

 So in hindsight the civil union act was a complete waste of time and it should of been straight marriage from the start?

 
That's more or less the best approach you can take. The important thing to remember is the context within which political activity occurs.

For this reason, I would say that while the Civil Union Act didn't quite achieve full equality under the law, it was still worthwhile. Why? Because it was about as good as the government of the day could pass given the political environment.

It's through the normalisation of homosexual unions that we are now able to have the debate over marriage equality.

While for most of my generation, we'd see this as a 'no-brainer', it's actually a bit of an achievement given that it was only ~25 years ago that NZ legalized homosexuality.

[Retardobot]

Oh shit really I'm gonna cry!

That's pretty gay.

[Tandoori]

Ad homonem.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

That's pretty gay.

Said the kettle to the stove, who was married to the pot.

The pot was silver as I recall.

[Retardobot]

Said the kettle to the stove, who was married to the pot.

The pot was silver as I recall.

I think you had a different type of pot.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I think you had a different type of pot.

Those that live in glass houses should not get stoned.

[Retardobot]

Those that live in glass houses should not get stoned.

But that's where the weed is.

DON'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE.

[Craigor]

I try to keep myself to myself, but I would just like to say that the thread's poll results actually suprised me, in a good way.

[Tandoori]

I don't know if those who voted 'For' considered the possible side-effect that this legislation might mean Craigosaurus could be inflicted upon some innocent person, as he has been upon us.

[Tandoori]

For those interested, the first reading of the bill is streaming now from:

http://www.parliament.nz/LiveBroadcast/house-384.asx

[Retardobot]

Thanks, Hori.

Great reading.

Can't say the same about what she's wearing though :\

[Tandoori]

Winston Peters is a populist scumbag, the model career-politician. Entertaining though.

[Bounty Hunter]

Here's how I see it.

New Zealand leads by example in making gay marriage legal (or equal rights) great, one less fucked up thing for society to be wrong about, but it's a stepping stone on the way to utopia, next we should tackle stem cells or having a military (imo NZ doesn't need one - different argument, I may make a thread), and then finally we'll tackle religion and sort that out.

THEN

we can spend money on exploring space and actually get somewhere as a race.

so in summary: legalise gay marriage, go to new planet.

[Zarkov]

Stepping stone in the wrong direction imo.

Just like the space shuttle.

The only reason you need any kind of legal construct is to protect the rights of children.

[BerG]

The bibles aggen it, Gods aggen it, I'm aggen it and if you got any sense, you're aggen it.

[Tandoori]

A conscience vote on Labour MP Louisa Wall’s bill passed by 78 votes to  40 tonight before a packed public gallery at Parliament.

The bill will now be considered by a select committee before facing two further votes before it can pass in to law.

Interesting to see what comes out of the Select Committee process; that differential in votes must drop down a bit, but still looks like it's got the support to go through.

[Bounty Hunter]

I wonder how many people support homosexuality just because they're not in the majority any more to be honest.

[The Demon Lord]

Here's how I see it.

New Zealand leads by example in making gay marriage legal (or equal rights) great, one less fucked up thing for society to be wrong about, but it's a stepping stone on the way to utopia, next we should tackle stem cells or having a military (imo NZ doesn't need one - different argument, I may make a thread), and then finally we'll tackle religion and sort that out.

THEN

we can spend money on exploring space and actually get somewhere as a race.

so in summary: legalise gay marriage, go to new planet.

Let he that desires Peace, Prepare for War.

Remember the Military does more than just fight wars. if there is a Natural Disaster - often the Military will be in within 24 hours, providing security, establishing field hospitals/Triage centres moving rubble/clearing road ways.

The Military also do a fantastic job of promoting NZ overseas - a lot of people outside of NZ know that NZ peacekeeping forces are some of the best in the world.

Plus its a very dangerous position to place all your defence needs in the hands of another country....

[Aloysius]

I don't really understand this law at all. Nor do I care enough to look into it.
I thought that with the civil union law, any couple could enjoy the same legal privileges as married couples. Equality for all.

Seems to me that this law is about allowing same sex couples to undergo a religious ceremony, that somewhere along the line the state got involved with, under a religion that doesn't exactly accept their union. What's stopping same sex couples holding weddings now anyway? Especially if this law isn't supposed to compel unwilling clergy to perform marriage rites for same sex couples; what will change?

Is it just removing the final point of difference. Same sex couples now get to use the word "married" to define their relationship; and that they will have a "marriage certificate."

Pass it. Who cares? I'm more interested in how the proposed liquor law got watered down to the shitty notion that the age at which youth have legal access to alcohol is what matters. Advertising, price, number of licenses, zoning, don't matter so long as the government gets to say it passed liquor reform without affecting it's own constituency.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I don't really understand this law at all. Nor do I care enough to look into it.
I thought that with the civil union law, any couple could enjoy the same legal privileges as married couples. Equality for all.

Seems to me that this law is about allowing same sex couples to undergo a religious ceremony, that somewhere along the line the state got involved with, under a religion that doesn't exactly accept their union. What's stopping same sex couples holding weddings now anyway? Especially if this law isn't supposed to compel unwilling clergy to perform marriage rites for same sex couples; what will change?

Is it just removing the final point of difference. Same sex couples now get to use the word "married" to define their relationship; and that they will have a "marriage certificate."

Pass it. Who cares? I'm more interested in how the proposed liquor law got watered down to the shitty notion that the age at which youth have legal access to alcohol is what matters. Advertising, price, number of licenses, zoning, don't matter so long as the government gets to say it passed liquor reform without affecting it's own constituency.

This bill is about your ignorance (and people like you). The fact that you admit that you don't even care enough to 'look into it' only compounds your ignorance.


It's not about religion at all.


I'm married, and now I have that status in society as being married. I have that right, yet someone else, who pays taxes and works just like me, doesn't. Only because they fell in love with someone who is of the same gender as themselves.

That doesn't sound equal to me.

[Aloysius]

Do I get points for pointing out it's "your" not "you're". No? Okay. Carry on.

Edit: Am I to understand that you are not ignorant and know what this law is about?

[Bounty Hunter]

Interesting that Kilabee and Pe_Pa_Possum, the only 2 who have stated they outright oppose the bill, have chosen not to comment.

[toofast]

Interesting that Kilabee and Pe_Pa_Possum, the only 2 who have stated they outright oppose the bill, have chosen not to comment.

I have yet to see a truly compelling argument against this bill. Most that oppose it either trot out the "marriage has been the same for ever, just change the civil union", or "marriage is for making babies, which gay marriages cannot produce" or "first its same sex marriages, next a man can marry his horse"

[nick247]

I am actually really proud to see NZ doing this. Just goes to show what can happen in a country where most people arent really religious.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I am actually really proud to see NZ doing this. Just goes to show what can happen in a country where most people arent really religious.

One third isn't really 'most people'.


Also I disagree that the percentage of religion in a country has any significant effect on gay marriage. Both Canada and South Africa support gay marriage and they both have over a 70% religious population.