Studying Computer Programming

[The Demon Lord]

SQL is pain in the Cunt when it starts misbehaving, especially when you have SQL servers that decide that they want to eat all the RAM on a server, despite being told not to. Although SQL isn't as big a pain as poxy 3rd part applications that use their own 'proprietry' Database structure that is in fact 10 years old and so shit that they don't even have a 64 bit ODBC driver for it

There - Fixed....

[oefox]

Programming is a bit of a misnomer IMO, back when I started programming was a fitting word but nowadays IDE's do all the monkey programming work and you're left to develop.


Need to learn SQL, every project i've worked on in the last 10 years has had a database backend.

[Xenolightning]

I'll definitely be going with C# in that case.

Is it even worth my learning to make video games?

Talk to Bell. I'm inclined to say no, unless you grew up programming you will never be good enough to develop for a games studio. They honestly have some of THE best developers out there. Learn the basics, that's what I did and found my niche in business process improvement, which is something I'd never considered.

[Oddball]

As far as courses go, is computer power any good? barely heard of them so maybe not... the course seems to start out quite basic, too

http://www.computerpower.ac.nz/images/cp/cpp_dsd_dip_software_development.pdf

I'm completely stuck if I'm learning this on my own, the resources online are pathetic that I've found, they just give you chunks of code rather than teaching you how to write your own. Not sure how to even start using SQL with C# either.

[Xsannz]

C# is a good place to start.

I started in C which taught me good structure. Then I moved onto vb as I was programming modules for access and excel.

Noback on c# and dabbling with java. Python isn't bad but prefer ruby on rails.

C# is well structured as well and once done you can move to java easily. So I would stick with c# or any of the .net languages really

[Oddball]

I've been looking through other courses and there's this as well http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/courses/Pages/BachelorofInformationandTechnology.aspx?return=/AreasOfInterest/Information-Technology

3 years, but course fees aren't enormous.

I'm still concerned about learning this on my own, there really aren't many adequate resources, so unless anyone has some links (which would be great) then I'm not too sure about it.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

A programmer goes to the shop to buy some milk. His wife calls and says "While you're out, get some eggs."

He never returns.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

As far as courses go, is computer power any good? barely heard of them so maybe not... the course seems to start out quite basic, too

http://www.computerpower.ac.nz/images/cp/cpp_dsd_dip_software_development.pdf

That looks like a good place to start. I think there are some people at my company who went through computerpower.

[Xsannz]

I've been looking through other courses and there's this as well http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/courses/Pages/BachelorofInformationandTechnology.aspx?return=/AreasOfInterest/Information-Technology

3 years, but course fees aren't enormous.

I'm still concerned about learning this on my own, there really aren't many adequate resources, so unless anyone has some links (which would be great) then I'm not too sure about it.

Word of warning.

Whiteria just purchased computer power who have so far been into liquidation three times previously.

Each time have left students out of pocket I signed up to take some night classes then they went belly up and now I am paying for a student loan for a course I didn't attend because they went bankrupt and I can't claim it back either because of bullshit with creditors for them.

But then again whiteria has a good record so maybe they will finaly turn around computer power and make it profitable.

[Oddball]

Word of warning.

Whiteria just purchased computer power who have so far been into liquidation three times previously.

Each time have left students out of pocket I signed up to take some night classes then they went belly up and now I am paying for a student loan for a course I didn't attend because they went bankrupt and I can't claim it back either because of bullshit with creditors for them.

But then again whiteria has a good record so maybe they will finaly turn around computer power and make it profitable.

Ah wow, that's messed up. I'm a bit sceptical about that course but I'll think on it some more. It'd be a struggle to not get bored during the early stuff too.

[Xsannz]

Also the way computer power is structed.

To do the programming stuff you have to do all the basic bs before you can even do the first theory only programming modules.

Exact structure is.

Operate a pc

Operate and navigate the pc.

Excel skills advanced.

Word

Acess

Powerpoint.

Then programming scope and project formatting.

Then programming structure


Then first theory in written english format.

Then theory in coding language.

And finally you can touch an ide and writw code.

It takes at least a week to nut out most of the initial stuff if you do a module per 8 hours with all their tests and project submissions per module.

[Xsannz]

If you want to do the computer power course.

I have all the books to go through if you want to borrow them.

And that's no different to studying there they give you a book to work through and if you get stuck you ask a qustion.

Which you can do in forums and probably get a beeter response as most instructors at computer power are ex students themselves with no real world application of the actual coding skills.

I got all the books from a mate who did the structured course.

So I have all the books for java and C and all the theory stuff.

C# I just bought the book from sybex and used that.

If you are in chch you are welcome to borrow the books.

[Bounty Hunter]

So - the question I'd pose for all above quotes is would I be better off just doing a diploma? MDS actually offer a bachelor of software engineering, which is game programming and it's quite tempting - what isn't tempting is the near 10 grand per year for 3 years. It would be a lot of fun but I'm not willing to pay that much. I'll look into other shorter courses out there.

a friend of mine is just finishing computer eng and is going into software engineering (aka programming) he said to me the only difference he's noticed between a computer eng student and a computer science student is that the computer eng students gets about 10k more a year for a graduate position, and employers are willing to pay that cause you are a trained engineer.

Computer Science Degree: 3 years, $45k pa Graduate
Bachelors Degree in Computer Engineering with Honors: 4 years, $55k pa Graduate

cost you 10k more for the extra year, but by the end of your life you'll have an extra $60k if you never get a pay rise, and as a software engineer you will usually crack 100k, and have one of the easier jobs (according to a survey I saw this one time and cbf finding again now)

I'd hate to extrapolate that (albeit rough) data to anything less than 2 years.

"the question I'd pose for all above quotes is would I be better off just doing a diploma?"

No.

[Oddball]

@bounty:

I've been looking through other courses and there's this as well http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/courses/Pages/BachelorofInformationandTechnology.aspx?return=/AreasOfInterest/Information-Technology

3 years, but course fees aren't enormous.

What's your thoughts on this? I'd really not be eager on that 4th year

^ I'd still consider it, of course, it does seem like the better option, maybe I just need to get on and do it... 3 years on student allowance is hard enough, though



Hmm I'm looking at university of auckland's website but can't find the bachelor degree of computer engineering, I'm assuming they call it something different; any idea what?


edit; this should be it ? http://www.engineering.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/futureundergraduates/fu-study-options/bachelorofengineeringbehons

[Oddball]

One thing's kinda made up in my mind and that's that I don't want to learn this on my own. I like the atmosphere, it helps me learn a lot, having actual instructors and going to a place to work vs. sitting at home where I can get distracted doesn't cut it for me. It's also the structure.

I also hate being stuck at home, makes me feel lazy

Anyway, I'm getting mixed information on what to study, so I'm quite confused at the moment. Seems computer science isn't worth it, so I'm looking into bounty's suggestion - either that or a one year diploma focused on programming.

[Bounty Hunter]

Hmm I'm looking at university of auckland's website but can't find the bachelor degree of computer engineering, I'm assuming they call it something different; any idea what?

nah I don't know what AUT call it, or if they _actaully_ offer it, the computer engineering degree at UC is still quite new, but is picking up pace, every year it's more and more popular.

Auckland might still call it electronic engineering (IIRC they dont offer electrical engineering (which is considered power engineering) like canterbury does)

You may have to talk to them.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I would susgest go for a one year diploma first. Something focussed in maybe .NET, but with some database stuff as well.

I know in my class, a guy who did the diploma first, then went on to do a degree. Good idea I think as after the diploma you can decide if you want to start working, or keep on studying.


I really enjoyed my degree. It had programming, game development, even a bit on accounting and a paper on law.  

Just keep in mind, there will be papers you really enjoy, and other papers which you will hate. Just take the good with the bad and stick too it.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

A boy is smoking a pack of cigarettes.
A girl gets irritated with the smoke and says to him: "Can't you see the warning written on the cigarettes packet, smoking is bad for your health!"
The boy replies back: "I am a programmer. We don't worry about warnings, we only worry about errors."

[Oddball]

nah I don't know what AUT call it, or if they _actaully_ offer it, the computer engineering degree at UC is still quite new, but is picking up pace, every year it's more and more popular.

Auckland might still call it electronic engineering (IIRC they dont offer electrical engineering (which is considered power engineering) like canterbury does)

You may have to talk to them.

This is the only one that looks like it that I can find.

http://www.engineering.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/futureundergraduates/fu-study-options/bachelorofengineeringbehons

[Oddball]

I would susgest go for a one year diploma first. Something focussed in maybe .NET, but with some database stuff as well.

I know in my class, a guy who did the diploma first, then went on to do a degree. Good idea I think as after the diploma you can decide if you want to start working, or keep on studying.


I really enjoyed my degree. It had programming, game development, even a bit on accounting and a paper on law.  

Just keep in mind, there will be papers you really enjoy, and other papers which you will hate. Just take the good with the bad and stick too it.

But where should I do the diploma. Other than computer power can't find too much in auckland city.

It seems my options so far are computer power for a one year diploma or university of auckland for comp sci or engineering that bounty's recommending

[Xsannz]

A boy is smoking a pack of cigarettes.
A girl gets irritated with the smoke and says to him: "Can't you see the warning written on the cigarettes packet, smoking is bad for your health!"
The boy replies back: "I am a programmer. We don't worry about warnings, we only worry about errors."

Do like.... Roflol

[Oddball]

looks like i might have to go to UC for that bounty, the more i look into it the more they seem different; is it anything similar or the same as to what you're doing?

I'd also worry about the entry credits, I never did level 3 NCEA and my science education was a massive flop because I went to westlake and our teacher was a complete retard with a class average of 14% (i think it was 50% to pass) because he talks REALLY slow and didn't manage to get through a single lesson... he was teaching there because his brother was head of department, reminds me of professor snape that guy..

need NCEA 3 math with calculus, physics, chemistry. I could of been good at them if I had decent teachers but they were fucking pathetic. Makes me annoyed to this day that they ruined my education in areas that could of helped

Do like.... Roflol

agree

[Retardobot]

I think you need to stop asking other people and get in touch with whatever tertiary provider offers something that takes your interest, providing you know what you want.

Create a list of papers/courses that appeal to you across multiple providers and do your research about each provider. Get in touch with their specific programme coordinators, see how they rank in the grand scheme of things. It sounds like you really haven't given this much thought yet and you need to figure out what it is you actually want to do then look at what tertiary courses are available to you.

You're only going to discover these things by actually doing the work yourself.

Also, stop blaming your teachers. Pull finger, do what's required to move on. They are only responsible for so much, you're the one that has to do the hard work.

[Xsannz]

Also often if you look there in their info if you don't meet the criteria.  There will be a couple of pre entry papers you can do.

Pass those and then go onto the degree etc.

They don't just not let you in because you fucked around at school.

[Bounty Hunter]

This is the only one that looks like it that I can find.

http://www.engineering.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/futureundergraduates/fu-study-options/bachelorofengineeringbehons

Computer Systems, Electronic/Electrical and Software, all describe what you've asked, make a time with one of their staff to sit down for a yarn.
 

looks like i might have to go to UC for that bounty, the more i look into it the more they seem different; is it anything similar or the same as to what you're doing?

I'd also worry about the entry credits, I never did level 3 NCEA and my science education was a massive flop because I went to westlake and our teacher was a complete retard with a class average of 14% (i think it was 50% to pass) because he talks REALLY slow and didn't manage to get through a single lesson... he was teaching there because his brother was head of department, reminds me of professor snape that guy..

need NCEA 3 math with calculus, physics, chemistry. I could of been good at them if I had decent teachers but they were fucking pathetic. Makes me annoyed to this day that they ruined my education in areas that could of helped



agree

 wait till you're 20, then you get UE for free.

if that's still a year or so away, work, have fun, earn some money and buy things/save for things that will make studying more comfortable

Also, stop blaming your teachers. Pull finger, do what's required to move on. They are only responsible for so much, you're the one that has to do the hard work.

I also agree with Rii, you will get some seriously terrible lecturers, guess what? no one gives a shit, you still have to pass.