Consumer advice: Retailer not playing ball

[mycoolcar]

Hi,

So back in April I decided I wanted to buy some bits for my camera (filters, macro extension tubes). I checked shops and trademe, eventually finding a trader with a decent stock of items. I asked him through the auction if he could make an auction for all the items I was after, he said to do buynow on that one and we could sort additional items later (presumably to avoid success fees). I did this, emailed him what I wanted, had a look around his website, and ended up purchasing a bunch of items (Total cost $151.35). A few days later the items arrived, I looked over them, then two days after I had received them emailed the retailer asking to return a few of the items (but not all, and not the one the trademe auction was for). I wanted to return the items because I didn't like their quality, even given their price. In my opinion they did not suit their intended use. One of the items was a lens filter, which arrived dirty, which IMO does not instill much confidence in the product.  I gave him my account details and asked for him to email me his return address, this is where things started to take a turn for the worse.

He stopped replying to my emails, and then I left the country for a month. I continued to email him while I was away, trying to get his return address. Eventually I got it (while I was still out of the country). I told him I was away, and let him know id send them as soon as I returned. Once home I sent them. No more emails from him for a while, I kept emailing asking for the refund. No reply so I start to ask questions on his trademe auctions, he blacklists me, I email more and eventually he replies.

When he got the items back and eventually replied to me, he said all were in perfect condition with no problems. He feels a refund is no warranted because the time frame from me receiving the goods to returning them was far too long. While I believe I did everything I could to return them as quickly as I could, given being out of the country and him not emailing me his return address for two or so weeks.

Since then he has continued to defend the quality of his goods, but has now stopped replying to my emails. I will post up the emails at a later date, if anyone wants to read over them for more detail.

What id like advice on is how I can get my money back.
He is based in CHC, I am in AKL, so I can't go see him and ask for it. The amount is $94.35 which I realise isn't all that much, but still it is my money that he has and I have no goods. I have looked at going to the disputes tribunal, however it costs $45 to make a claim, plus the time to do it, so at the end of the day I wont really be getting anything back.

Suggestions?

[Pitchey]

Is it a legit business or someone just selling stuff from home?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Maybe report him to the Gisborne area Police commander.

[Speakman]

He doesn't happen to sell Zunes by any chance?

[The Demon Lord]

Caveat Emptor.

While you may have done everything in good faith - there isn't many avenues you can go down.

[BerG]

The guys in CHCH?

I know a great and honorable Chief who lives there. His name is Bahuta Jaldī - 'He who inflicts the hot foot'- he is a formidable warrior.

[Bounty Hunter]

If you can be fucked file a small claims dispute, it'll cost $50 but you can get that back off him.

The meeting will probably be here in chch though, but you can get flights, acom and car hire out of him too.

If you write up a wee report stating what you did and when, then show up in a nice shirt and pants you'll probably win plus you'll get a paid holiday to chch.

[Bounty Hunter]

If you can be fucked file a small claims dispute, it'll cost $50 but you can get that back off him.

The meeting will probably be here in chch though, but you can get flights, acom and car hire out of him too.

If you write up a wee report stating what you did and when, then show up in a nice shirt and pants you'll probably win plus you'll get a paid holiday to chch.

[Equity]

AFAIK a buy now isnt considered an auction, so falls unddr CGA, Id tribunal him, do a written submission and waste his time and win

[mycoolcar]

Is it a legit business or someone just selling stuff from home?

Good point. I believe it is a legit business. Website is http://www.camera-shop.co.nz/ From companies office I can see one he use to run was struck off, although I cannot find his current one.

If you can be fucked file a small claims dispute, it'll cost $50 but you can get that back off him.

The meeting will probably be here in chch though, but you can get flights, acom and car hire out of him too.

If you write up a wee report stating what you did and when, then show up in a nice shirt and pants you'll probably win plus you'll get a paid holiday to chch.

Difference between small claims and disputes tribunal?

Disputes you cannot claim for the cost to file, or any other costs associated with it.

AFAIK a buy now isnt considered an auction, so falls unddr CGA, Id tribunal him, do a written submission and waste his time and win

Interestingly enough the items from the auction/trademe purchase I have kept, and just asked to return a few of the other items I added. As I see it, I purchased those items from his shop (camerashop.co.nz) and only one thing from the trademe auction.


Link to trademe auction, which no longer has the question and answer section showing. http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=583108841

He does not sell Zunes, which I am going to take as a good sign. Through my various internet search trawling to find more info on him I have found he is an active member of GPForums, and so I am tempted to post this there to try and shame him into refunding me.

[Bounty Hunter]

Difference between small claims and disputes tribunal?

Disputes you cannot claim for the cost to file, or any other costs associated with it.

Not sure sorry dude, just running off what I remember with my aprillia that blew up.

[mycoolcar]

Here are the emails, split into two posts due to character limit. Starting with the first on April 16th, from trademe after I clicked buy now. Sensitive information has been removed, and a note added of this where it applies. Use of spoiler tags as its quite a long post. Have coloured emails, mine blue, his red.

Spoiler :

Payment instructions from the seller
Trade Me
Date sent: 16 Apr, 13:37 PM
Item Details
Item    Cokin P Series ND Filter set ND2 ND4 AND ND8
Reference #    P95253298 Insert this as the reference when making a deposit
Date closed    16 Apr, 13:36 PM
Price    $30.00
Shipping    $6.50 Track n trace courier
The seller is registered in Christchurch City, Canterbury
Total to pay    $36.50
Payment options    NZ bank deposit, credit card
Seller's Email    REMOVED


Pay by credit card
Secure payment with Pay Now    Pay Now Icon

Earn Onecard reward points on everyday purchases


Or    


Pay by other means




Important:
Include the reference # - P95253298 - in your deposit details.
It may take a couple of days for your payment to clear.
Sellers normally ship the goods once payment is received.
Hi mycool62,


Thanks for winning my auction.


Please deposit payment (including shipping) into my bank account:


BNZ
Name: REMOVED
Account Number: REMOVED


Some banks only allow a 2 digit suffix so please use:


Account Number: REMOVED


Please put the auction number in the payment reference field so we can identify your payment and then email us once you have done so and include your preferred shipping address.


It may take a couple of days for us to see your payment in our bank account due to bank clearance times.


We will ship the goods once we have received and cleared your payment.


PLEASE SEND ME YOUR ADDRESS ... to ensure a prompt delivery!




Also please hang onto our email address should you require any camera accessories in the future.


thanks




Mark Bennett
www.camera-shop.co.nz | www.studio-lighting.co.nz




Choose your delivery address
We'll send it to the seller, make it available on My Trade Me
for your reference and save it for next time.




-------------------------------------    




Apr 16
to mark
Hi Mark,


I asked a couple of questions on this auction, and would like to add a few things to my order.


1x Step down rings set - http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/camera-accessories/lenses/other/auction-582363283.htm
1x Cross 6 point start filter 77mm http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-photography/camera-accessories/filters/auction-582954093.htm
1x GND 2
1x GND 4
1x GND 8
Cokin style 3 slot filter holder and step up rings.
1x 77mm CPL


Can you let me know a little more detail about each item, and a total price. Once sorted, I will deposit money into your account with the reference number from this auction, and provide my delivery address.


Thank you,
Michael




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Apr 16
to me
Hi Michael, thanks for your email, what Cokin ring sizes are you wanting please and what quality CPL are you wanting? We have 3 different classes, standard for $10.50, Pro slim for $29 (these are great value for the quality) and the top of the line Hoya for $159.


Mark




-------------------------------------    


   
Apr 16
to Mark
Hi Mark,


After adapter rings for 77mm, 72mm, 62mm, 55mm & 44mm lenses (for the Cokin P Series style).
Pro Slim CPL, 77mm.


Can I also add 1xMacro Extension Tube for Sony Alpha?




If you could please confirm with a list of each item and a price for it, that would be fantastic.


Thanks,
Michael


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Apr 18
to me
Hi Michael, have sent an invoice from our system in a separate email for you. Please review the order and let me know if I can be of further assistance.


Please note, we need to add $3.50 to shipping if rural delivery is required.




-------------------------------------    
   


Apr 18
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Thank you for the invoice. It all looks good, however I have changed my mind about the graduated cokin filters. Could you please remove them from the order.


So total cost with grads removed is $151.35


I have just made payment via internet banking, it should show up in your account in 1-2 days.


Delivery address is non-rural.


DELIVERY ADDRESS HERE, REMOVED


If you could please let me know when it has been sent, and the tracking number.


Regards,
Michael




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Apr 24
to Mark
Hi Mark,


The packaged arrived on Monday, thank you for the fast postage.


I've taken the last two days to look through the items. I am not happy with the quality of some of the items, and so would like to return them.


They are all in their original packaging, as received by me.


Id like to return the following items
- 77mm 6 star filter
- Cokin Filter Holder and all adapter rings
- Pro Slim CPL 77mm
- Step down rings set


Of course I will cover the cost of return courier, so if you could please provide me with a return address that is not a P.O. Box I can send it on Friday.


If you could please arrange a refund of $94.35 to the following bank account:


BANK ACCOUNT DETAILS HERE, REMOVED


I am sure you can understand that assessing the quality of any item over the internet is difficult, and I thank you in advance for your understanding.


Regards,
Michael Carr


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Apr 29
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Id really appreciate a reply on this asap.


Thanks,
Michael




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Apr 30
to me
Hi Michael, sorry, I thought I'd replied to this.


Can you give me more information please on the items you are unhappy with. I am quite surprised as we sell many of all these items and get great feedback. The metal rings I don't really understand as they are simply metal rings and I can't see how they could be any different. The Pro slim CPL I also am surprised at as these are great quality filters, in fact many users and reviews have compared them with Hoya filters which are professional filters, only our ones are 1/4 the price.




-------------------------------------


   
Apr 30
to Mark
Hi Mark,


The 6 star filter arrived dirty, with blemishes on the glass around the outer edge (I realise it can be cleaned, but it does not instill confidence when an item arrives dirty). The cokin style adapter is loose and flimsy, it feels like it is going to either fall off, or break, or one then the other. The CPL seeps oil out of the join every time it is turned. The stepdown rings isn't so much an issue with quality, rather I needed rings to allow me to use the large filters on smaller lenses, but if I am returning the other items, I might as well return this too.


I realise you cannot get high quality items for a cheap price, but I did expect just a little more from these.


If you could please arrange the refund, and I will get these couriered back to you quick smart.


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------




May 13
to Mark
Hi Mark,


When will you be able to process the refund and provide your return address?


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------



May 13
to me
Hi Michael, sorry, we have been awaiting the items to be returned for inspection...


Physical address here (removed)


or
P.O Box address here (removed)




-------------------------------------


May 20
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Can you please let me know what process you follow for refunds and what needs to be inspected?


I have requested a refund for the items as they are not as I expected, which with purchases over the Internet sometimes happens. I feel I am well within my rights to request this refund within 14 days of purchase under the cga, and as per standard trademe protocol have been waiting for the refund before sending the items.


I had hoped we would have been able to resolve this in a more timely manner, but unfortunately I am currently out of the country, and so am unable to send the items until I return, which at this stage should be the 30th or 31st of May.


If you can please let me know when the refund has been processed and I will ensure the items are returned in a timely manner when I return to NZ.


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------


May 20
to me
Hi Michael, as with any purchase online or not, the items need to be returned before a refund can be considered.




-------------------------------------


   
Jun 10
to Mark
Hi Mark,


I sent the items last week. They should arrive to you either today or tomorrow.


If you can please let me know when the refund has been processed.


Regards,


Michael




-------------------------------------


   
Jun 17
to Mark
Hi Mark,


The tracking indicates this was delivered on the 8th of June.


When will the refund be processed?


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------



Jun 30
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Can you please reply to my email.


It has been over two weeks since the items arrived back with you, while I understand and am appreciative of your patience while I was out of the country, I would like the refund to be processed this week.


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------




Jul 6
to Mark
Hi Mark,


As you know I have asked you though the question feature on trademe to please respond to my emails, however I have not had a response and now see you have blacklisted me.


If the refund has not been processed into my account by Wednesday the 10th of July I will be taking a much more proactive approach in this matter.


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------




Jul 6
to me
Hi Michael, I blacklisted you because you were spamming my listings. It took you over 6 weeks to return the items, so figured there can't be too much urgency required... I have examined very well and all are in perfect condition... still deciding on this one as the time frame and non defective goods really do not warrant a refund.






Regards




Mark Bennett
CELLPHONE NUMEBER HERE, REMOVED


www.phototools.co.nz/     |     www.studio-lighting.co.nz     |     www.cable-warehouse.co.nz




-------------------------------------



Jul 6
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Thank you for replying. I am sure you can understand that when someone has your money and does not respond to emails you get worried they are planning on keeping it, and so I saw it fit to attempt to contact you in other means.


I received the items on the 22nd April, I then requested a refund on the 24th. I then wasn't provided your return address until the 13th of May, by this time I was out of the country, and so sent them when I returned. I returned on the 30th of May and sent them on the 5th of June. Everything I did was within as reasonable time frame as I could provide. Had you responded to my email dated 30th April with your return address in a more timely manner, I would have been able to return the items before I left the country.


As stated in my previous email, some items were in my opinion defective, while others were of lower than reasonably and acceptable quality. I believe I have done everything within my control to return the items in a timely manner and to promote clear communication between us. I am well within my rights as a consumer to request a refund within the time frame that I did.


As stated in my last email, If the refund has not been processed by Wednesday the 10th of July I will be taking a much more proactive approach in this matter. If you could please arrange the refund of $94.35 to the following bank account:


BANK ACCOUNT DETAILS HERE, REMOVED


Regards,
Michael Carr




-------------------------------------


   
Jul 11
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Due date has passed, you are just stalling and wasting time now. Transfer the money so you don't have to spend anymore time on this.


Regards,
Michael




-------------------------------------

[mycoolcar]

Emails continued.

Spoiler :

-------------------------------------




   
Jul 29
to me
You want to know why I have not refunded you, because,


A) there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of the items, they are the same quality that sell for much, much more in retail stores,


B) I believe you used them for their intended purpose and have been trying to pull a fast one, using the item once and then sending them back! (we examined the items very closely and they had fingerprints and wipe marks on the filter, showing use and a poor attempt at trying to clean it!)


While we do pride ourselves on our customer service and return customers, some customers just arn't worth it!








-------------------------------------








Jul 29
to Mark
Hi Mark,


I have used Hoya and Cokin CPL's and UV filters before. Some I still have and use, others I have sold. I disagree that the filters you supplied are of as high quality as you think. I purchased these from you planning to take them with me on my trip overseas, the one I was on during May. I don't use CPL's all the time, and so wanted some cheap ones to take traveling in case I lost them, they broke, or got overly dirty & dusty in China and Nepal (that's where I went). Travel is hard on gear, so I figured id give a local retailer with some cheaper items a go. I had your ones for two days before I notified you I wanted to return them, far too short time to possibly use them for anything in depth. Id also like to note that I told you in my email requesting a refund that one of them (the 6 star filter) arrived "dirty, with blemishes on the glass around the outer edge" something that doesn't help to instill confidence in your product.


If you for some reason doubt that I was out of the country in May, you can have a look at my flickr where there are photos taken during May in China, Tibet and Nepal. Like this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/mycoolcar/8874942620/ There are a few others, some of which I took with my phone, but I am sure you get the idea that I was actually there. If you look closely, you will notice none were taken using any of your items.


In reply to item B, I inspected the items, removing them from their packaging and inspecting, to find I didn't like their quality. I then repackaged them, thought about it for a day, then emailed you to ask for a refund. I know how to hold filters, and know with 100% certainty that I did not leave any fingerprints on the surface of the filters. I am not trying to "pull a fast one". I am an honest trader, as you can see from my trademe feedback as history. I just want my money back, fair and square.


Regards,
Michael








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Aug 11


to Mark
Hi Mark,


Still no refund. Where are you going to refund me?








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Aug 19
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Another week, still no refund, not even a reply from you.


From a customer service point of view you are still doing terribly. Not only have you failed to offer a solution to the problem, you continue to ignore my emails, presumably in the hope that I will forget about it and/or give up. I wont be, and I will continue to peruse this issue.


Regards,
Michael








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Aug 26
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Another week, still nothing.


What are you going to do to solve this problem?


Regards,
Michael












-------------------------------------




   
Sep 2
to Mark
Hi Mark,


Another week, still no reply.


When are you going to do something to remedy this problem?


Regards,
Michael

[Kayne]

What an asshole.

Sounds like another Kevin Summersby :/

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Emails continued.

Your name is Michael.

It is an excellent name if I say so myself.

[mycoolcar]

Yes Michael, I believe we have had this conversation before.

[Pitchey]

Wait! What? You mean you're NOT a girl??!!!!?!?!

[deanox]

My middle name is Michael, am I cool now?

[.osiRiS]

Thought the website looked familiar - http://m.gpforums.co.nz/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=2276

[Equity]

Seems you've been really fucked around :/

[mycoolcar]

I don't think I am being unreasonable asking for a refund. He has not replied to an email for ages and I can't see him doing anything about this.

Am thinking about posting it on GP and seeing if he does something. Asking on his trademe auctions got a response, so maybe public shaming is the only thing he responds to.

[toofast]

I think you should post on GP. Nothing fucks me off more than having to chase dickheads like this down. I mean sure if you dont want to do the refund, say so and don't give out your return address. I had a similar situation where the guy took my item, but just stopped replying to my emails. I had to let it go, but given you got a prime way to contact him, you definitely need to do it.

[mycoolcar]

Have posted on GP.

http://www.gpforums.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&postid=9914598

[Retardobot]

Made a mistake posting on GP.

The ignorance and blind stupidity is mind numbing.

[Bounty Hunter]

Have posted on GP.

http://www.gpforums.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&postid=9914598

Stunning.

Trying to find my old GP account

it's something retarded like =Bounty_Hunta= username is probably harder to brute force than my password....