Valve and it's new 'wares

[Pyromanik]

The controller makes sense, but to me the rest of it just doesn't.

Is Valve thinking everyone is going to build a Steam PC for the living room to play their titles and other linux games, then also build another Windows box to stream every other AAA+ game?
And if you were planning on just building a single gaming PC, why would you use SteamOS ?

You sound mad, and uninformed.

Valve being valve, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a sexup on wine or crossover transparently launching non-valve non-linux games.
Time will tell.

So Valve is just trying to use it to pry devs away from directx and a majority of gamers will continue to use Windows as it offers best of both worlds with directx and opengl support.

You mean like how PS4 is different to Xbox?
Provided valve provide a tidy and simple toolkit to base work in, I can see developers following on.

Which leads us to:

So if all games were based the same open gfx standards, porting would be fucking easy, development costs would be lower and shit would get done quicker.  Your favourite games would be playable on any of your devices assuming they had the processing power to support it.

This (<3 Bell). Cross platform is more of a thing than ever before. The easier it is to do this, the more devs will go for it.


DirectX is well known for being a shit API. Although it's come much cleaner and much more popular in recent years, it still has it's many flaws. Because it's toted as the king of the stack though people get this crap idea that opengl simply can't compete. Which is lies. When DX10 was launched opengl already had the capability for many of it's 'new' eye-candies. Probably just didn't have as many extrapolation layers to make it as nice a dev experience. Dunno, ask Bell.
Of course my opinion is skewed somewhat for my personal preferences (eg. <3 Ryan Gordon), you should do your own googling.


OpenGL -> OpenGL ES or somesuch would surely be a much smaller use in resources than going from DX->Ogl.

Saying that no one makes games for the platform Valve are planning on pushing is nothing more than a bit of a straw man. In the past there has generally been less to no interest in linux as a gaming platform, sure. But as humble bundles and the like show, it's not unprofitable. Now take one of the world's biggest gaming coporations and have them push this platform out to thousands of consumers previously oblivious to the likes of linux & open source... suddenly it's no worse than many other options.

The fact that it is linux is also largely irrelevant due to the fact that it doesn't matter what platform it is at all. Those who know, know. And those who don't, doesn't matter - they're users, not tech geeks like us. Personal preference flies out the window because it purely comes down to the interface, which Valve is developing.

tl;dr, nice toolkit, devs happy. nice ui, users happy. leveraging huge existing userbase, suddenly a viable platform.

[Bounty Hunter]

1/4 of the way through this article.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/10/05/exploring-valves-masterplan-on-steamos-steam-machines-and-the-future-of-the-pc/2/

[Pyromanik]

what, this?

"The open nature of SteamOS allows for the possibility of a lightweight version being installed directly onto TVs. "



Stubbornly refusing to read article because it's needlessly on 4 pages.


***

fuck you curiosity.

Apart from latency issues, linux does most of this stuff already. PulseAudio streams sound, wayland does a better job of streaming video feeds than X, one can already divvy up mice and keyboards between instances. Things are getting better and better. The news that valve could push a whole fucking game through a pipe like this and still have it be responsive is the sexy part.

It's like all my linux nerd dreams have come true by Valve working in it.




PS. That article makes it sound more like it's setting itself up to be a small step to jump to a competitor for the likes of netflix, itunes and pay television.
Which wouldn't be all that bad.

[Plasma]

You sound mad, and uninformed.

Valve being valve, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a sexup on wine or crossover transparently launching non-valve non-linux games.
Time will tell.

Not mad but maybe uniformed.
From what I saw on the SteamOS page their solution was to stream from a Windows box, kinda like a non portable Nvidia shield. Nothing about wine or crossover launching thingy.

You mean like how PS4 is different to Xbox?
Provided valve provide a tidy and simple toolkit to base work in, I can see developers following on.

Like if a OS existed that could play both PS and Xbox games, as a consumer why would you buy either console.

Until the day arrives when everyone/majority is using OpenGL to develop I see it as a bit of hard sell to your average non technical customer, who is left wondering why some Steam titles work on their Steam Box and others don't but they do on their mates Windows machine with Steam on it. They just want COD:Ghosts to run not muck about with some twin system steaming solution, they don't care about the technology behind it they just want it to work.

But then again I guess someone big has to put up their hand first and push the hard sell otherwise nothing will ever happen and Valve does have the cash and balls to do it.

[Pyromanik]

Crossover launchy thingy is pure speculation on my part. It's one way I could see non linux native games not being completely ignored.

OpenGL was the standard. Quake used it. Half Life (and all it's mods like CS) used it. UT used it. Most engines run with it (cf Unity, id Tech 5, Unreal Engine, et al). DirectX simply pushed in with an almost literal sense, marketing and all that.
Back when games were good most things ran on OpenGL or had options for either tech. It wasn't until Dx 9 at least that they started supporting it directly on the hardware (as opposed to OpenGL, which has mostly always been there since 3D gaming became a big thing).

Now things are swinging back the other way with the likes of HTML5 etc. getting APIs for OpenGL, I can certainly see it becoming the first choice for developers again.

Personally I don't think a customer gives a shit which tech is used, so long as the game works. And if they do, they do. It's a convenience factor for most folk, such is why they buy consoles in the first place.

As for streaming solutions and the like, I would bet that no matter what it ends up being, it'll be easy for non techy folk to do.



I'm not hanging out for steam box, but I'm certainly very interested in it. Not fanatic, but excited one might say. Not so much because I want one, but for what it could mean to the industry at large. Especially when you hear Mr Gabe Newell talk about steam and what they're researching around it. It might surprise you. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/01/gabe-newell-on-removing-valve-from-steam/

[Bounty Hunter]

Video showing the new controller in action....no HD....sort it out valve...




I could....possibly see me on the couch playing a game like civ or AOE....but unlikely....

[Retardobot]

Oh god, track pads?

Fuck that nasty noise. My thumbs and fingers are never silky smooth.

I like my tactile feedback.

[Pyromanik]

It has haptical feedback.

There's no way to get the precision without using trackpads.

[Retardobot]

I still don't like the idea of a trackpad. Dragging my thumbs/fingers creating friction bothers me.

[hambam]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7988[/ATTACH]

such great design. . .

[Bounty Hunter]

Oh god, track pads?

Fuck that nasty noise. My thumbs and fingers are never silky smooth.

I like my tactile feedback.

They dont look like just track pads though, I think they're a bit smarter than the usual trackpad?

Don't get me wrong, I'm still not sold, any couch gaming I MAY do on steamOS would be with a logitech K400

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7988[/ATTACH]

such great design. . .

Something wrong with your other 5 fingers? (see what I did there?!?)

[Retardobot]

Yeah, I'm guessing they're not simple trackpads. It's just the gesture of sweeping my finger across an open area in order to generate movement. There's no feedback you get from a stick.

I don't play games on my cellphone for that very reason.

[Pyromanik]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7988[/ATTACH]

such great design. . .

Still in development.
These are concepts - prototypes.

Yeah, I'm guessing they're not simple trackpads. It's just the gesture of sweeping my finger across an open area in order to generate movement. There's no feedback you get from a stick.

I don't play games on my cellphone for that very reason.

Yeah, each to their own. Personally I dislike sticks when it comes to precision type movements. But it also depends what you're used to I guess.
I agree that you don't get the same feedback, and phone games are generally crap.

[Hmmmgood]

creating friction bothers me.

Haha yeah right...

[Bell]

BF loves linux.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/12/4826190/linux-only-needs-one-killer-game-to-explode-says-battlefield-director

[Pyromanik]

"We love it! But we didn't develop for it."

I wonder if they will next time around, or if there's pressure from the parent company with what direction they'll take.

Cool to see that servers are finally back where they belong though.

[Pyromanik]

Oh so yeah. Been watching a lot of vids from the Gabe Newell lately. Very interesting direction Valve has opted to take. Also very cool.



Gabe Newell: On Productivity, Economics, Political Institutions, and the Future of Corporations

[Growler]

TLDW can you summarise?

[Pyromanik]

Sure, it goes like this:

Long, but worth it. Very interesting.

[Growler]

How many nerds will watch it and see him blink his eye 3 times in 3 minutes... OMG HL3!

[Pyromanik]

I kid, I kid.

Gabe starts out with a bit of History.
eg. ID software managed to out distribute a massive corporation (ie, Doom sold more copies than Windows).
Gabe thinks about this and finds it interesting. Some philosophy and economics ensue.
Basically, Valve are an 'egotistical company' who likes to think they're in the top rank, and can give every other top tier game producer a run for their money. And in all fairness they can.
But even Valve can't compete with the content created by their own user base.
Mods, levels, weapons, HATS. Not just shit crap slapped together either. Decent content.
There's one chap in the US somewhere that rakes in some 150,000 a year or something just by making hats.
So they hired an econimist.
Gabe Newell is learning all about prediciton markets.
Turns out that snipping a wee bit off of a lot of small transactions is generally 3 times (or more) profitable than selling a locked down product.
Gabe (and the rest of Valve) hate the shit out of windows because it tries to crush this.
The PC is an open platform that has allowed them to become the software giant they are.
Being open helps them continue to remain in their top spot where so many have fallen before.
It also makes them adaptable for future developments (eg, fuck RIAA and it taking 10+ years until iTunes store came along and they finally figured out the internet is not the enemy - although this isn't mentioned in the vid).
So Valve are beginning on focussing on giving back to the community from which they've gleaned so much.
The more people are interested in using their platform and/or service, the more they innovate & create, the more it benefits everyone.
So that brings up things like how to increase user productivity, create scarsity and value around virtual goods. And that's all wortheless without persistence, so they have to make them persist beyond the game itself. (ie, steam marketplace, trading cards, etc, etc).
And their focus on Linux. Because fuck Windows and fuck DirectX (both closed, locked & propietary systems).

This is all from the top of my head, I actually watched the video about 2 months ago.

[Pyromanik]

So the fallout of all this gets me wondering why retards (err, people, a scary amount of poeple, including high profile game developers that should know better) think that Direct3D is superior to OpenGL (like actually superior, not just that they're trained in DirectX and don't want to reskill).

The short answer is that they're fucking wrong.

The long answer is very complex and ends up with Direct3D being maybe SLIGHTLY better, but of course microsoft only. So windows for the most part and Xbox. But this is after YEARS (over a decade) of playing 'catchup'.
OpenGL in essence can do every single thing Direct3D can do, and generally faster (see Valve benchmarks during adventures porting Source engine)

It in basically all boils down to Microsoft issuing a giant smeer campaign on the "competitor's" (Originally OpenGL was from SGI, now it's of course... 'open' [Khronos group, whatever]) technology, and literally actually crippling it's ability to perform (as) well since vista onwards.

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX
(if interested in gamedev [Tiwa, Bell] they have a bunch of other very interesting stuff on the blog in general)

People have bought into this, which reduces the skillset available for folks in the more 'open' arena, and Valve find this detractive to their industry as a whole.
It's kinda cool to see a large company have the balls to stand up with this ideology, and actually prove it's possible (as opposed to stay closed and reap in the dosh while they can before they fall over but retire rich - mentioned by Gabe Newell in previously posted vid).

[Retardobot]

Lost a lot of interest in Valve lately because of Gabe's new holier than thou attitude.

"The customers want HL3 but we've decided not to make HL3 even though we promised it because that's not what the customers want".

So I resort to calling him a giant fatty and it makes me feel better.

[Lias]

Lost a lot of interest in Valve lately because of Gabe's new holier than thou attitude.

"The customers want HL3 but we've decided not to make HL3 even though we promised it because that's not what the customers want".

So I resort to calling him a giant fatty and it makes me feel better.

Much rather have LFD3 than HL3

[toofast]

LFD3 would be great. Feel like a new fun multiplayer to replace the grind that is dota2.