Why Vaccinations work

[Xsannz]

Glad i was of the generation that had an MMR.

Measles was ""eradicated almost" in early 90s then the scare tactics of one doctor undid it all.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/measles-is-back-it-had-help/article13359533/

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/63146782/Toddler-sparks-measles-alert-after-overseas-flights

[Pyromanik]

OP should have just said "Because of fucking science."

[Pyromanik]

And yes, it is a great tragedy.
Like the Auckland parents who almost had their son die of Tetnus because they didn't vaccinate. HOW THE FUCK IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE.

Yet say this to some nay sayer and they harp on about herd immunity (which is bullshit) and how evolution is causing 'superbugs' (which is only a half truth, and not a reason to NOT immunate).

[Xsannz]

And yes, it is a great tragedy.
Like the Auckland parents who almost had their son die of Tetnus because they didn't vaccinate. HOW THE FUCK IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE.

Yet say this to some nay sayer and they harp on about herd immunity (which is bullshit) and how evolution is causing 'superbugs' (which is only a half truth, and not a reason to NOT immunate).

Superbugs are because people don't finish courses of antibiotics and as such don't fully remove the bug from their system and it then over time adapts to the antibiotics.

because "human nature"  humanity will be it's own downfall.

[DarkVirus]

I'm all for people not immunising.

Simply because its our last hope of natural selection, otherwise it will end up being idiocracy

[Xsannz]

i'm all up for natural selection, but they don need to breed the superbugs in the mean time...  can't we just 1080 them.

[Meesham]

This shit makes me angry. When we were having our first child in Chch a few years ago we did antenatal classes through the Christchurch Parents Centre (recommended to us by our GP) and we had the president of the centre sit in on the class each week. When the topic of vaccination came up she started pushing her no-vaccination agenda saying that she didn't vaccinate her kids and they were fine, that child care centres can't refuse to admit your child because they're vaccinated and various other crap. It made me pretty angry to say the least so I sent around a document to everyone that night outlining the potential side effects of a vaccine as well as the effects of the disease if you don't vaccinate (I can't find the link but it was by Auckland University).

[420fairy]

I chose to vaccinate my daughter - I suffered through Chicken pox, mumps and measles as a child my stink mother made me play with sick kids. I remember how fucking horrible it felt to be sick itchy and unable to make it go away. I didnt want that for my child. Do i regret it? Not at all.

[Craigor]

Darkvirus and I were discussing Tetanus the other day..

From our understanding the way most vaccines work, is by exposing you to a small, disarmed amount of 'the virus'
So if you impale yourself on a rusty nail, how does asking if your tetanus is up to date, and then exposing yourself to more of it, help?

[Bounty Hunter]

Measles was ""eradicated almost" in early 90s then the scare tactics of one doctor undid it all.

It wasn't scare tactics.

[Xsannz]

Measles was ""eradicated almost" in early 90s then the scare tactics of one doctor undid it all.

It wasn't scare tactics.

scare tactics, paranoid  crackpot, fraudulant unfounded claims.

and i quote

The modern anti-vaccination scare began in the late 1990s, when a British physician named Andrew Wakefield began warning people that the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella) causes autism in children. Medical experts refuted his claims, but parents panicked. Vaccination rates in Britain sank from 92 per cent to 73 per cent. Dr. Wakefield’s research has since been widely condemned as a giant fraud, and many of the current crop of measles victims were never vaccinated because of him.

[Pyromanik]

Darkvirus and I were discussing Tetanus the other day..

From our understanding the way most vaccines work, is by exposing you to a small, disarmed amount of 'the virus'
So if you impale yourself on a rusty nail, how does asking if your tetanus is up to date, and then exposing yourself to more of it, help?

Because it's a vaccine, NOT A FUCKING CURE.

[Pyromanik]

Measles was ""eradicated almost" in early 90s then the scare tactics of one doctor undid it all.

It wasn't scare tactics.

I'm guessing because it's you, there's another context to which this is almost true.
But it most certainly was scare tactics.
In order for chappy to collect government research money on a new vaccine, for a company he owned stock in too iirc.
It was pure greed, but scare tactics is a huge means to that end.

Are there risks? Probably. Highly improbably from what I understand though (admittedly not much BECAUSE I'M NOT A FUCKING IMMUNOLOGY SCIENTIST).
Side effects of tetanus vaccination: a sore arm, maybe a bit of a rash.
Side effects of tetanus: motherfucking death.

[Craigor]

Darkvirus and I were discussing Tetanus the other day..

From our understanding the way most vaccines work, is by exposing you to a small, disarmed amount of 'the virus'
So if you impale yourself on a rusty nail, how does asking if your tetanus is up to date, and then exposing yourself to more of it, help?

Because it's a vaccine, NOT A FUCKING CURE.

That was my point.. it seems like an inappropriate time for it lol..

[420fairy]

Pyro lolbags you can get vaccinated for the pox these days!!

[Bounty Hunter]

scare tactics, paranoid  crackpot, fraudulant unfounded claims.

and i quote

The modern anti-vaccination scare began in the late 1990s, when a British physician named Andrew Wakefield began warning people that the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella) causes autism in children. Medical experts refuted his claims, but parents panicked. Vaccination rates in Britain sank from 92 per cent to 73 per cent. Dr. Wakefield’s research has since been widely condemned as a giant fraud, and many of the current crop of measles victims were never vaccinated because of him.

If you read the whole wikipedia article you would have read this quote from the article itself:

We identified associated gastrointestinal disease and developmental regression in a group of previously normal children, which was generally associated in time with possible environmental triggers.

In the paper by Wakefield et al they merely suggested a correlation, they certainly did not state a causation. Later Wakefield suggested that the MMR shot be put on hold but children continue vaccination of measles, mumps and rubella separately with a 12 month gap between each. The hold would only last until further emergency research could be done to safely conclude that MMR together were not an issue.

There were only 12 children in the study, that alone should tell you enough about Wakefields initial analysis of his findings.

Wakefields career was destroyed by idiots too quick to point blame.

[Xsannz]

pffft, still that aside anti - vaccinations is still not a wise choice, as you have stated even wakefield suggested they still be vaccinated but staggered, had people actually headed that and ""not the panicked human nature of it must all be bad"  we would not have the measles outbreaks starting again.

again also if people followed their courses on antibiotics and steroids to finish, doctors theorise that the rise of superbugs would not have been as prevalent.

[Xsannz]

Darkvirus and I were discussing Tetanus the other day..

From our understanding the way most vaccines work, is by exposing you to a small, disarmed amount of 'the virus'
So if you impale yourself on a rusty nail, how does asking if your tetanus is up to date, and then exposing yourself to more of it, help?

Because it's a vaccine, NOT A FUCKING CURE.

That was my point.. it seems like an inappropriate time for it lol..

it's a controlled way for your body to develop the antigens to deal with it.

thus the flu vaccine which is incubated in chicken eggs causes allergic reactions in patients who are allergic to eggs, and is so difficult to produce quickly, they have found a new technique using insects which is a lot more stable and efficient

[Bounty Hunter]

pffft, still that aside anti - vaccinations is still not a wise choice, as you have stated even wakefield suggested they still be vaccinated but staggered, had people actually headed that and ""not the panicked human nature of it must all be bad"  we would not have the measles outbreaks starting again.

Blame are fuckwits like Jenny McCarthy. Don't persecute the 'doctor', he was merely reporting on observation, following the scientific method as best he could.

From what I gather he is now actively trying to find evidence to prove his initial observations since his reputation has already been destroyed. This might be fanning the flames a bit, but at the end of the day if he does find a causative effect between the MMR shot and a disease then good on him. But until then I would suggest that the MMR shot is perfectly safe and every child be vaccinated.

[Retardobot]

I just suck a lot of dick.

[Xsannz]

I just suck a lot of dick.

for the man with everything, give him penicillin

[Meesham]

Blame are fuckwits like Jenny McCarthy. Don't persecute the 'doctor', he was merely reporting on observation, following the scientific method as best he could.

From what I gather he is now actively trying to find evidence to prove his initial observations since his reputation has already been destroyed. This might be fanning the flames a bit, but at the end of the day if he does find a causative effect between the MMR shot and a disease then good on him. But until then I would suggest that the MMR shot is perfectly safe and every child be vaccinated.

Not really, he used pretty poor testing methods and there was no follow up research. For example his sample size was 12, way too small to get any meaningful results. There's also evidence that he had a big conflict of interest, he was receiving money from trial lawyers suing the drug companies while he was doing the research (http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-deer-1.htm).

[kruz]

it's a controlled way for your body to develop the antigens to deal with it.

thus the flu vaccine which is incubated in chicken eggs causes allergic reactions in patients who are allergic to eggs, and is so difficult to produce quickly, they have found a new technique using insects which is a lot more stable and efficient

It's not always the egg method, they add the lovely Squalene agent too.
If you start at the beginning, and see how a flu virus is contracted, it enters the body via either mucous glands in the mouth or nose. No virus gets injected into a persons arm, other than the one they call "Vaccination". I have had maybe 3 genuine full on flus in my life, and I am a severe asthmatic, and I am still breathing. How many people actually die from the flu anyway?. I would wager big money that it's sod all, and the ones that do, would be old, or infirm.

Fascinating subject, but a real hornets nest if you kick it hard enough enough 

[Pitchey]

It made me pretty angry to say the least so I sent around a document to everyone that night outlining the potential side effects of a vaccine as well as the effects of the disease if you don't vaccinate (I can't find the link but it was by Auckland University).

What was her response?

[Craigor]

Darkvirus and I were discussing Tetanus the other day..

From our understanding the way most vaccines work, is by exposing you to a small, disarmed amount of 'the virus'
So if you impale yourself on a rusty nail, how does asking if your tetanus is up to date, and then exposing yourself to more of it, help?

Because it's a vaccine, NOT A FUCKING CURE.

That was my point.. it seems like an inappropriate time for it lol..

it's a controlled way for your body to develop the antigens to deal with it.

My point wasn't "Why do we have a tetanus vaccine"
I completely understand having it prior to the fact, at scheduled intervals, to build immunity..


What I was saying was, it's quite common practice for people to be administered the vaccine, after they have been exposed to the real thing, (e.g. going to hospital after impaling yourself on a rusty nail) and I was wondering how that was actually helpful.. "Oh you have been infected with tetanus, here, have more dead tetanus"


I was genuinely interested if anyone had any insight into the reasoning behind that practice, because it doesn't make sense to me.