Why Vaccinations work

[kruz]

Quoting Bill Gates:
"The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's heading up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent!" (About 1 Billion People!)

What do you think Bill is saying here?. If you think there is some alturistic intent behind vaccinations, and that no one profits from their production or promotion, then perhaps a better .jpg would be an ostrich with it's head in the sand. Bills statement seems to imply that there is a double whammy for the corporates here too, they get obscenely wealthy, distributing rat poison for humans, which keeps Ted Turner, and Bill Gates happy too. Win-win right?.

Don't think I'm on some high horse, I have had two flu vacc's 2 years apart from each other, and in both instances, ended up sicker than i have ever been in my life, with serious respiratory complications. When people in white lab coats inject stuff into animals, they look for changes, or developments, and we call that "science". When I stand back, and witness the same thing after I got injected with stuff, it's called "anecdotal nonsense", because I don't have a white coat. Now, as a control, I don't touch a vaccine for 6 years, and I have not had anything more than a mild head cold in that time. I was younger, fitter, and stronger back then, and I still got bowled over royally. When I started thinking for myself, rather than just doing everything my GP said was "in my best interests", I suddenly enjoy brilliant health.

All I am suggesting, is that people think for themselves. We get taught how to learn, not how to think.

[Tiwaking!]

All I am suggesting, is that people think for themselves. We get taught how to learn, not how to think.

If you ever catch Rubella, you will change the way you think

Or you will die. One of the two

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Bill Gates is the awesome.

He's like a real life superhero saving the world.

[Tiwaking!]

Bill Gates is the awesome.

He's like a real life superhero saving the world.

[HD] Bill Gates Comic Book Hero Microsoft
http://www.infowars.com/super-hero-comic-book-paints-eugenicist-bill-gates-as-a-savior/

Bill Gates “saves lives.” It’s a mantra that’s been often repeated in the media to lionize his philanthropic work at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, where his money funds an admittedly harmful global vaccine campaign, dangerous GMO agricultural projects with Monsanto, bizarre nanotech experiments to drive infertility and more.

Now, the latest Bill Gates propaganda will literally portray the man committed to population reduction as a “comic book hero.” Bluewater Productions, who previously depicted Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, will translate the philanthropist’s life into a graphic novel, including the beginnings of Microsoft, awards from Queen Elizabeth and his ‘Olympian’ marriage to Melinda Gates.

[Bounty Hunter]

Don't think I'm on some high horse, I have had two flu vacc's 2 years apart from each other, and in both instances, ended up sicker than i have ever been in my life, with serious respiratory complications. When people in white lab coats inject stuff into animals, they look for changes, or developments, and we call that "science". When I stand back, and witness the same thing after I got injected with stuff, it's called "anecdotal nonsense", because I don't have a white coat. Now, as a control, I don't touch a vaccine for 6 years, and I have not had anything more than a mild head cold in that time. I was younger, fitter, and stronger back then, and I still got bowled over royally. When I started thinking for myself, rather than just doing everything my GP said was "in my best interests", I suddenly enjoy brilliant health.

All I am suggesting, is that people think for themselves. We get taught how to learn, not how to think.

Can you provide your R value for the correlation between your fitness/nutrition and illness? Also what interpolation method did you use?

[Tiwaking!]

words

Can you provide your R value for the correlation between your fitness/nutrition and illness? Also what interpolation method did you use?

Are you asking someone on the internet for epidemiological information?

You'd be better off asking a blind person what blue looks like.

[Pyromanik]

I think the flu vacc made me ill.

Because that could be the only possible explanation.

And even if it is the truth, it's far more likely that you're allergic or some such to the vaccination itself, NOT THAT YOU GOT A SUPER FLU BECAUSE OF IT.

Learn to think for yourself, not just learn absorb the bullshit Jenny McCarthy spews at you.
y'know, because she totally has a white coat too. Or needs one. Or something.

Now, as a control

Get the flu vacc again, please.

[Bounty Hunter]

Are you asking someone on the internet for epidemiological information?

You'd be better off asking a blind person what blue looks like.

Good point Tiwa!

kruz, did you use a double blind trial?

[toofast]

I feel like this thread has gone rapidly downhill.

[Retardobot]

What are you guys doing?

Don't even bother quoting him.

[Pyromanik]

I skipped over earlier posts because antivax morons all spew the same illogical shit.
But now I've accidentally read them, and I just can't not rebuke.

Spacemonkey already demolished most of this, but particularly the third break has raised my ire beyond the capicity to ignore.

How do they count the dead?.

Well first they bring them out.

I imagine it looks like this in the land where you live:


Monty Python-Bring out your dead!

Doctors just try to kill you with any poison they like

And would be subsequently imprisioned. Just like any (attempted) murderer.
   

I don't know a single person who has died from the flu, or even come close to it. Have you had someone in your immediate circle of fam/friends who has?.

YES ACTUALLY. SO FUCK YOU, YOU PRESUMPTIOUS CUNT.

Why do they even keep viruses to study them?

FOR SCIENCE.
So we can defend against/erradicate other viruses in the future. Because studying THAT virus doesn't mean that the results are only applicable to THAT virus. Just like studying pigs gives insight to human (and other mammal) physiology.

Simple fact you're oblivious to:
Yes some people might have adverse effects upon treatment.
SAME FOR ANY MEDICINE.
The benefits FAR outweigh the alternatives.

I will however conceed one AND ONLY THIS ONE point:
Why is it that the only way to test for allergies to a vaccination is to administer the vaccination? Surely there are a lot of infant deaths that could be avoided if there were a simple test that could be used beforehand.
Vaccinations are not inherently bad.

This is probably partly ignorance on my part, but I should like it if there were more... uhh... 'general public level' information available on this.

Note how this is posed as a question, not as rhetoric against vaccinations.






Every single thing you've come out with is either complete bullshit or a different kind of shit that you didn't think through. You've been hands down replied to with logic and reason on every occasion, debunking every anti vaccination myth you've pulled up.

Hey have you guys heard what this rich famous guy who isn't a doctor said?

...

[Pyromanik]

I get violently ill on morphine.
OH NO, PAINKILLERS ARE A FUCKING SCAM. NEVER WANT ANY OF THEM AGAIN. ALL JUST A LOAD OF SHIT THAT DOCTORS PUMP INTO YOU TO MAKE MONEY FROM DRUG COMPANIES. #refusepainkillers

Pain killer? more like BRAIN KILLER! Did you know they're made from OPIUM!?
They do nothing to stop the pain, in fact it gets worse once you are given them!
Think for yourselves, open your eyes people!
Don't believe what the doctors are telling you! They only trained for over 10 years with strict supervision because of a dedicated passion for compassion to help ill folks! What do they know!?



...



If your neighbour filled a syringe with concentrated opiates and injected you with it, and you died, it would be called murder! WHY WOULD YOU LET A DOCTOR DO IT?

[kruz]

This made my morning, thanks guys, awesome work.
So many chuckles. We need to start another thread like this one.

Did anyone actually address what Bill said though?. Be he a doctor, or a software giant, why does he say exactly those words?. It's not ambiguous in any way, he is talking about using vaccines for population reduction. Twist is, turn it, settle it in your own mind, however it suits you, but that's the exact wording.

For the record, I never said I was anti vaccine, I said I would not have another flu vaccine in my life, because once bitten....actually, twice bitten. A lot of the medicine is good, but not all of it. And yes, I agree completely that there should be more fore-warning Pyro, especially on the baby to toddler years vaccines, which as you correctly point out, makes the child the guinea pig, with no adequate public level information. It concerns me that these vaccines are administered at an age when the childs entire body is in a state of flux, growing, developing, still unable to regulate itself in any serious way, and they pump the kid full of what?. These medical professionals spent the first two years of my daughters life telling me that he body was going through "massive developmenta changes", yet they still wanted to pump her full of weird vaccinations at that age....this seems so contradictory doesn't it?.

Don't get me wrong, there is good medicine out there, you'd be a tool to suggest otherwise, but not all of it is. Not sure what al these references are to Jenny McCarthy, so you'll have to explain that whacko reference to me. I am guessing she has been on a an anti vaccine crusade or something?. No way I am googling her name on my home computer. I would like to stay married. The rest of the accusational, and hyped up angry stuff, nice job getting yourself worked up over a forum thread. Keen to discuss topics, but having not slung any crap in your direction, you could maybe try do the same. Save the anger for when you actually need it.

[Bounty Hunter]

This made my morning, thanks guys, awesome work.
So many chuckles. We need to start another thread like this one.

Did anyone actually address what Bill said though?. Be he a doctor, or a software giant, why does he say exactly those words?. It's not ambiguous in any way, he is talking about using vaccines for population reduction. Twist is, turn it, settle it in your own mind, however it suits you, but that's the exact wording.

I actually just did this cause that's a fair call.

At this point in time I think you've seriously misunderstood the context of what Bill is talking about, I'm not surprised you didn't understand it either because there is some fairly simple algebra involved and ironically even a bit of a joke that perhaps some people wouldn't pick up on because they didn't pay attention in primary school.

The quote comes from this TED talk here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates?language=en#t-137560

He's talking about hos CO2 (carbon dioxide, the 'biggest' greenhouse gas) effects climate change.

He proposes the following equation:

CO2 = P * S * E * C

where:

P is the number of people on earth
S is the number of services each person uses (dish washer, car, cellphone etc)
E is the amount of energy each service uses (a heater might be 1W, your car might be 50kW etc)
C is the amount of carbon each service uses

It's a simple model, but that's ok cause it probably comes to a fairly good approximation, certainly good enough for a broad TED talk, I'm sure a much more accurate model exists and that it is significantly more complex, it might even have a differential (it's part of this whole other part of maths called calculus, would probably make your brain explode)

But what Bill is trying to say is that we need for the amount of CO2 to become zero. If you pull your mind back to primary school, or if there's another child in the care at your home you might ask them, but any number multiplied by 0, is 0.

For example:

5 * 0 = 0

2 * 0 * 5 = 0

Using Bills model, lets make some assumptions that keep things really simple, lets imagine for a moment that god forbid you and I are the only two people left on the planet. Now lets assume I kill you cause that's the logical next step, so now there is only one person left on earth and it's me and I'm happy now. Lets say I use one light bulb as a service, and it's 60W lets assume that I first used a diesel generator to power the light bulb, but then I switched to a solar panel.

In the first case the CO2 on earth as contributed by humanity (me) is:

CO2 = 1 * 1 * 60 * 50
CO2 = 350

That's 1 me, using 1 service, that uses 60W and produces 50 carbon dioxides per Watt.

In the second case:
CO2 = 1 * 1 * 60 * 0
CO2 = 0

so now the CO2 contributed by me is zero, because the solar panel doesn't produce any carbon dioxide.

Keep in mind this is a very simple model and doesn't take in to account the CO2 required to produce the solar panel.

Ok, so now we understand how Bills model works we can focus on the population.

The Gates Foundation famously supports the eradication of malaria in Africa. Africa is this whole continent, it's a huge part of the world that supports many millions of people who live in some very poor conditions. Because of the terrible conditions and the threat of diseases such as malaria, the population have tended towards having large families, this is to help ensure that at least some of the blood line increases. You may have noticed when feeding ducks that mother ducks often have very very many baby ducks (called ducklings). Few duckings reach full maturity due to predators and disease, this is the same for many African families.

Bill thinks that if he works really hard on a vaccine for malaria then he can reduce the threat of disease on African families, so they will in turn have fewer children as there is less risk of all those children dying. You can argue the semantics of this assumption of his, for example large families might be a part of African culture, or that they don't have access to contraception.

The subtle joke is that one solution to force the amount of CO2 towards zero is to kill off the entire planet. If the population were zero then the amount of CO2 contributed would be zero and Bills model would work (this is actually a an excellent proof that his model is at least somewhat accurate). Though this is clearly impractical, however lowering the population does assist with getting the amount of CO2 towards zero.

So out of context it may seem as though Bill is suggesting that vaccines are killing people, but he also mentions reproductive health services. These are things like condoms and contraception that stop people from having babies. So going by your own logic you're suggesting that Bill is saying that condoms are killing people. That health services are killing people. And thus your rational falls over and can be proven to be false.

You can accept my explanation, or reject it but there really shouldn't be any more proof required. Perhaps you have some questions? I can explain some more maths if you like?

[kruz]

Bounty, you have a Luse-K quote in your signature. Do you still keep in touch with him?. I miss the man's evil wit, and he doesn't seem to frequent any of the old websites he used to. If you do, can you give him a hi from me?. Thanks man.

I understand what you said, but if nothing is emitting CO2, what happens to the trees and plants?. Even a reduction of 50%, do we know what this would actually do to the eco-system?. Crazy catch-22 kind of thing going on there.

Bill Gates love vaccines, he is not quiet about it. The simple sanitation, and introduction of fresh drinking water to most poverty stricken places, would lower disease rates incredibly, without jabbing needles in peoples arms. These vaccines get distributed to the back woods remote villages, that just need the corrupt govt of thier country, to provide the basics. How much are the vaccines, when we get told that 1.00 a day can transforms a childs life" by aid agencies?.

Hey, Malaria, and all that stuff, is a worthy battle, I have no argument there, I think the root of my trepidation, is why they are pushing vaccines as the panacea of modern health, when you read stuff like this

“The mainstream media has been busy hailing the supposed success of India’s polio vaccine campaign over the past few years, with many news outlets now claiming that the disease has been fully eradicated throughout the country. But what these misinformation puppets are failing to disclose is the fact that cases of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP), a much more serious condition than that caused by polio, have skyrocketed as a result of the vaccine’s widespread administration”

I think my stance is best summed up by Pyromanik, where the almost wholesale lack of pre-jab information exists, there is an issue. There is a canyon full of difference between saying to a parent "some peoples babies have died of complications immediately after having this administered, and the rest have grown up happy and healhty". That is true choice being offered, not pushing one agenda, and glossing over the fact that deaths do occur as a result of them, for whatever reason that is.
  I don't think this is unreasonable.

[Bounty Hunter]

Bounty, you have a Luse-K quote in your signature. Do you still keep in touch with him?. I miss the man's evil wit, and he doesn't seem to frequent any of the old websites he used to. If you do, can you give him a hi from me?. Thanks man.

Nope, It's a quote I've had since he said it on GP forums yonks ago.

I understand what you said, but if nothing is emitting CO2, what happens to the trees and plants?. Even a reduction of 50%, do we know what this would actually do to the eco-system?. Crazy catch-22 kind of thing going on there.

Bill is discussing the CO2 contribution by humans which has been increasing ever since the industrial revolution. CO2 was self regulating before we started burning hydrocarbons.

Bill Gates love vaccines, he is not quiet about it. The simple sanitation, and introduction of fresh drinking water to most poverty stricken places, would lower disease rates incredibly, without jabbing needles in peoples arms. These vaccines get distributed to the back woods remote villages, that just need the corrupt govt of thier country, to provide the basics. How much are the vaccines, when we get told that 1.00 a day can transforms a childs life" by aid agencies?.

Yes, sanitation etc will certainly decrease risk of transmission of disease. But malaria is spread by mosquitoes.

Hey, Malaria, and all that stuff, is a worthy battle, I have no argument there, I think the root of my trepidation, is why they are pushing vaccines as the panacea of modern health, when you read stuff like this

“The mainstream media has been busy hailing the supposed success of India’s polio vaccine campaign over the past few years, with many news outlets now claiming that the disease has been fully eradicated throughout the country. But what these misinformation puppets are failing to disclose is the fact that cases of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP), a much more serious condition than that caused by polio, have skyrocketed as a result of the vaccine’s widespread administration”

I think my stance is best summed up by Pyromanik, where the almost wholesale lack of pre-jab information exists, there is an issue. There is a canyon full of difference between saying to a parent "some peoples babies have died of complications immediately after having this administered, and the rest have grown up happy and healhty". That is true choice being offered, not pushing one agenda, and glossing over the fact that deaths do occur as a result of them, for whatever reason that is.
  I don't think this is unreasonable.

Natural News is not a reliable source. Especially when they cite themselves as a source.

The "Indian Journal of Medical Ethics" which has no impact factor, was the only source of the negative review of NPAFP. I found a non-scholarly magazine in India that claims the cause of the increase in NPAFP is disputed, it is generally accepted that the increase is due to the increased sample size and quality of data. Also the CDC posted that the worst region was 37.9 per 100,000 (which is 0.0379%) of children under 15 during the time that article was posted. Sensationalist reporting for click bait.


It takes like 10 minutes to think critically about a subject posted on a nut-job website like Natural News

[Kayne]

If Ngati_Grim was still here, would this thread be more or less interesting?

That's all I have to add to this.

[kruz]

There seems to be no reliable alternative sources these days, other than the ones plugged into the mainstream of thought. How does a person obtain, the most basic of medical imperatives, which is the "second opinion"?. If everyone who reports something contra to the medias golden boys and girls, gets black listed as a nut job, then we are leaving ourselves wholly at the mercy of the mainstream camp, to deliver us the bad news of any side effects, or deaths resulting from their medicine campaign.

Human nature does not have in it, an inherant nature of honesty. On the Police 10-7 show, how many people caught drink driving, or speeding, actually say "yeah, I did it?". Maybe one in 25 or 30. How much less will this nature then admit they poisioned a bunch of kids unnecessarily with a vaccine full of Squalene?.

You have to admit, there seems to be a heck of a lot of effort goes into reporting what is beneficial to the vaccine giants, and for some reason, we hear nothing of any side effects, chronic paralysis, and other results, which are often worse than the diease they were trying to eradicate. This equates to passive propaganda, making the situation even more dangerous from the standpoint of misinformation. This hearken s back to Pyromaniks point about the almost blanket lack of genuine information available to people.

There's no possibility that the reporting for pro vaccine doesn't suffer from sensationalist click-baiting?. It's very easy to just play the "whack job conspiracy theorist" card, but who is actually bothering to look into this independantly, and trying to see why the worlds child popualtion is being targeted with vials full of a material we are told is benefical.

The real problem as I have experienced, is that they rely on their pious weilding of degrees, and doctorates, to blind the victim, because they could not possibly understand the science behind it, so unless you have "credentials", your opinion is worthless. I work in a very tenchnical industry, and am responsible for training average joes, and josephines, to understand as much of it as I can, by using examples, and paralells, rather tham just insult their intelligence, and discredit their opinions. The level of understanding of people who lack any degrees, is frankly astounding.
    None of my beliefs or opinions are borne of any crusade, or band wagon, they are merely a by product of thinking for myself. I have been alive too long to ignore the fact that when information is lacking, or appearing to be withheld, then there is always an agenda behind it  How many of you who work, get mad as crap when management won't share information?. I can tell you why that is, and it is as simple as them not wanting their decisions being second guessed, by a lowly staff member, who may have a better way to do it, and thus show them up.

I really appreciate your replies Bounty, it's been fantastic to have someone to discuss this with, so thanks mate.

[Xsannz]

If Ngati_Grim was still here, would this thread be more or less interesting?

That's all I have to add to this.

more interesting, Ngati was an extremist

[Pyromanik]

I think I know what he'd say.

[Xsannz]

there are a few old users who would have made this thread more interesting.

[Retardobot]

I think I know what he'd say.

He'd be drunk and call everyone homophobes.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I wish there was a card game that had a whack job conspiracy theorist card.

I'd play it.

[Lias]

I wish there was a dating site that had a whack job conspiracy theorist.

I'd hit it.

Fixed

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I didn't realise Jenny McCarthy was on a dating site.



I feel like playing Red Alert 3 again.