War on terror

[Xsannz]

Interesting topic starter, an eye for an eye and all that, although Jesus who she quotes at the bottom did say do unto other as you would unto yourself, and turn the other cheek so to speak, but then one could argue that since they do not believe in this at all that it isn't beholding to do so in treatment of them.

anyway there are always polarising views on either side of the topic, me I am for the knock em off strategy, but then i want rapists and heinous local criminals shot and given death penalty rather than tax funded holidays and free accommodation and food and their debts wiped.

One Pissed off Canadian Housewife
This is very good PLEASE read....

Thought you might like to read this letter
to the editor. Ever notice how some people
just seem to know how to write a letter?


This one surely does!


This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how
it also applies to the U.S.A., U.K. and Australia .


THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH

Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to
her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...


"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was
it or was it not, started by Islamic people who
brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?


Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered
that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from
the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?


Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

Do you think I care about four U. S. Marines urinating on some dead Taliban insurgents?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were
claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a
nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief
of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .


I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head, while Berg
screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.


I'll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents
in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men,
instead of disrespecting their own religion by
hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.


I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow
themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the
innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.


I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that
their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than
the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting
at home, to hear about them when something happens.


In the meantime, when I hear a story about a
CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent
terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the
head when he is told not to move because he
might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:


I don't care. Shoot him again.


When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:

I don't care.


And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes
it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.'
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.


I don't care!!


If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to
all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to
the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!


If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete
button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't
complain when more atrocities committed by radical
Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:


Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if
during their life on earth, they made a difference in
the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.

I have another quote that I would like to
share AND...I hope you forward All this.


One last thought for the day:


Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:


1. Jesus Christ


2. The British Soldier.


3. The Canadian Soldier.


4. The US Soldier, and


5. The Australian Soldier


One died for your soul,
the other four, for you and your children's Freedom.


YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON,
AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET!


AMEN! GOD BLESS CANADA AND AMERICA

[Tandoori]

Whoever penned that missive has made no valid points.
I could apply similar populist nonsense to support the very opposite cause:



we're fighting a war on terror aren't we? It started with colonial intervention and progressed right through the cold war, desert storm and gulf 2.0.

Should I care about some Afghanis blowing up some New Yorkers? Maybe I will care when western forces stop bombing us  decade after decade?



Even though people can rightfully feel upset about these things, when it comes to foreign policy we need more empathy and less polarisation.

[Xsannz]

Whoever penned that missive has made no valid points.
I could apply similar populist nonsense to support the very opposite cause:



we're fighting a war on terror aren't we? It started with colonial intervention and progressed right through the cold war, desert storm and gulf 2.0.

Should I care about some Afghanis blowing up some New Yorkers? Maybe I will care when western forces stop bombing us  decade after decade?



Even though people can rightfully feel upset about these things, when it comes to foreign policy we need more empathy and less polarisation.

finally engaging conversation, welcome back tandoori..

yes there are arguments both sides, but it is this attitude above that seems to be seething in the american public recently, and i am starting to feel similar, although i agree, look at the Palestine conflict which was cause by "britain" promises both parties access to the holy land in promise for assistance during the war, and then basically pulled out after the war and left both parties to fight it out essentially.

but extremist prejudice being passed generation to generation on both sides is definitely not helping things.

of course in summary here i am gliding over each topic in brief as otherwise this  thread would soon be larger than the forums discussing merits / failures of each western historic involvement / cause in modern conflicts

[Retardobot]

Whoever penned that missive has made no valid points.
I could apply similar populist nonsense to support the very opposite cause:

Thank you.

I was about to post "who is this, why should I bring credence to what he/she has said" before reading.

[Pyromanik]

yes there are arguments both sides, but it is this attitude above that seems to be seething in the american public recently, and i am starting to feel similar, although i agree, look at the Palestine conflict which was cause by "britain" promises both parties access to the holy land in promise for assistance during the war, and then basically pulled out after the war and left both parties to fight it out essentially.

Whoever wrote that was a biggot. Not even veiled.
The text is laced with "I don't care" so heavily it's trying to drive home a point contradicted by the entirety of the rest of it, and it's very essence of existing.
It's broadly generalising, xenophobic, and about every kind of 'ist' in existence
It is in fact, the very anthisis of not caring.
It is the very perpetuation of war.
Mongering and absolute rhetoric at it's worst.

I didn't even read it all it was that retarded.

It is not a recent development by the Americas' public. It has always been this way, you've just been sucked into the repetitive phrase used as a poorly executed straw man to re-enforce racisim, hatred of all muslims, and the perpetuation of the conflict in the mid-east.

I vote the author gets a bullet through the brain to attempt to prevent further nonsense of this kind.

[The Demon Lord]

Ooooo this is going to be interesting - because I somewhat hold similar views to the Author.

(I could expand, but I will leave it at this and see where the conversation goes)

[winter]

Ooooo this is going to be interesting - because I somewhat hold similar views to the Author.

(I could expand, but I will leave it at this and see where the conversation goes)

I'm of a similar feeling.

Islam is in need of serious reformation to bring it up to par with secular society - even Maajid Nawaz (ex Islamist, extremist) believes this. It is not racist or bigoted to feel this way in my opinion (a white non-muslim male's opinion at that) as at the end of the day it's not the entire abolishment of Islam, it's simply the reformation of Islam's more dark-age inclined ideologies.

This has been less a war on Terror than it has a war on Political correctness. It's almost impossible nowadays to hold an opinion without being shot, tweeted about, accused of some sort of victimization or offence.

But yes, interesting topic, I too am interested in seeing this progress.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

as at the end of the day

Winter is secretly John Key!


He raises some good points too.

[winter]

as at the end of the day

Winter is secretly John Key!

Yes, for I'm sure he is the only one to ever use that term, ever.







ever.





Now I'm gonna go sell your land to some rich Chinese guys to convert it into a power plant.

[Tiwaking!]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Kudos on making the world a safer, more peaceful place

Islam is in need of serious reformation to bring it up to par with secular society

Christianity had a reformation. It was catastrophic.
Islam cannot be reformed.

Any questions?

[Lias]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

You see that's where you're wrong.

People didn't die in Iraq/Afghanistan (other than of course allied casualties), only enemy combatants and collateral damage died. No people mate.

[Tiwaking!]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

You see that's where you're wrong.

People didn't die in Iraq/Afghanistan (other than of course allied casualties), only enemy combatants and collateral damage died. No people mate.

Ahh yes. My mistake.

Being shot in the back or unarmed makes you a terrorist as long as you are the prerequisite 1km radius from the nearest terrorist.

[Lias]

Being shot in the back or unarmed makes you a terrorist as long as you are the prerequisite 1km radius from the nearest terrorist.

Remember any brown person not living in 'murica (and half the ones living there!) are the enemies of freedom!

[Tiwaking!]

Being shot in the back or unarmed makes you a terrorist as long as you are the prerequisite 1km radius from the nearest terrorist.

Remember any brown person not living in 'murica (and half the ones living there!) are the enemies of freedom!

Unidentified Terrorists are always Terrorists.

[winter]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Kudos on making the world a safer, more peaceful place

Islam is in need of serious reformation to bring it up to par with secular society

Christianity had a reformation. It was catastrophic.
Islam cannot be reformed.

Any questions?

Why not? Seems like a very head in the sand comment.
Should people continue to be put to death for apostasy? Women to be left as second class citizens in almost every possible facet of life? I hope for the worlds sake you're wrong and maajid and his crew are successful.

On another note. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone chimed in with the 'murica' comment... and do you really think the 'merica' military targeted brown people?? Let alone civilians at all, intentionally???

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Where did you make up those numbers from?

According to Wikipedia, the number is in the tens of thousands.

And as I understand, the majority of civilian deaths are caused by terrorists.

[winter]

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Where did you make up those numbers from?

According to Wikipedia, the number is in the tens of thousands.

And as I understand, the majority of civilian deaths are caused by terrorists.

^this, and to cite 'millions' of civilians deaths as entirely intentional is really sad. I hope to never see the world through such eyes.

[Tiwaking!]

Islam is in need of serious reformation to bring it up to par with secular society

Christianity had a reformation. It was catastrophic.
Islam cannot be reformed.

Any questions?

Why not? Seems like a very head in the sand comment.[/quote]
Not a head in the sand comment. Depending on how you count (if you include the Thirty Years War vs not including the Thirty Years War) the death toll for the Protestant Reformation is either 50,000 (England Only) or 1 - 3 million.

If we were to ignore the fact that the two major branches of Islam can (and probably would) wipe each other off the face of the earth and just use the low end of the death toll, then the number of people who would die during an Islamic Reformation would be about:

Number of Muslims x Death Toll
1600000000 * 0.0125 = 20000000
This is about 2/3rds the population of the country of Iraq

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Where did you make up those numbers from?

According to Wikipedia, the number is in the tens of thousands.

And as I understand, the majority of civilian deaths are caused by terrorists.

I read an interesting article recenrtly in the paper, it pointed out that something like 3000 americans had died due to 9/11 + iraq, it then pointed out that this is roughly how many americans are killed on american roads monthly

The current number of US casaulties in Iraq are double the number of people who died in 9/11.

And the current number of Iraqi civilians who have died? One hundred TIMES that number(officially)

Of course, the Americans have long stopped counting the dead so the probably number is closer to 800,000 dead than the 600,000 they project

This was from 2007. Unless both Wikipedia and Wikileaks have changed since then, the numbers should be about right

[Lias]

do you really think the 'merica' military targeted brown people?? Let alone civilians at all, intentionally???

In some cases, yes I absolutely do. I don't think that's an official policy, as much as it's a by-product of the way "conventional" military forces are being deployed against a non conventional enemy. Soldiers are generally trained to dehumanise their opponents, it's very hard to focus on killing someone if your thinking "what about his wife and kids". You take conventional forces like that, throw them into a meat finder of partisan hit and run and suicide tactics, and yeah your going to get plenty of people simply treating every "arab" they see as a target. Much like as a motorcyclist I treat every car on the road as if it's actively trying to kill me.

So yeah.. deliberate "lets kill civilians?" no, but utter callous disregard? Absolutely.



Collateral Murder - Wikileaks - Iraq

[winter]

Islam is in need of serious reformation to bring it up to par with secular society

Christianity had a reformation. It was catastrophic.
Islam cannot be reformed.

Any questions?

Why not? Seems like a very head in the sand comment.

Not a head in the sand comment. Depending on how you count (if you include the Thirty Years War vs not including the Thirty Years War) the death toll for the Protestant Reformation is either 50,000 (England Only) or 1 - 3 million.

If we were to ignore the fact that the two major branches of Islam can (and probably would) wipe each other off the face of the earth and just use the low end of the death toll, then the number of people who would die during an Islamic Reformation would be about:

Number of Muslims x Death Toll
1600000000 * 0.0125 = 20000000
This is about 2/3rds the population of the country of Iraq

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And then more than a million people were killed in retaliation.

Where did you make up those numbers from?

According to Wikipedia, the number is in the tens of thousands.

And as I understand, the majority of civilian deaths are caused by terrorists.

I read an interesting article recenrtly in the paper, it pointed out that something like 3000 americans had died due to 9/11 + iraq, it then pointed out that this is roughly how many americans are killed on american roads monthly

The current number of US casaulties in Iraq are double the number of people who died in 9/11.

And the current number of Iraqi civilians who have died? One hundred TIMES that number(officially)

Of course, the Americans have long stopped counting the dead so the probably number is closer to 800,000 dead than the 600,000 they project

This was from 2007. Unless both Wikipedia and Wikileaks have changed since then, the numbers should be about right
[/quote]

So you're saying if some of the more dark age, violent, sexist and horribly disgusting ideologies of Islam were to be reformed there would be a massive murderous protest??

Religions of peace eh..

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I read an interesting article recenrtly in the paper, it pointed out that something like 3000 americans had died due to 9/11 + iraq, it then pointed out that this is roughly how many americans are killed on american roads monthly

The current number of US casaulties in Iraq are double the number of people who died in 9/11.

And the current number of Iraqi civilians who have died? One hundred TIMES that number(officially)

Of course, the Americans have long stopped counting the dead so the probably number is closer to 800,000 dead than the 600,000 they project

This was from 2007. Unless both Wikipedia and Wikileaks have changed since then, the numbers should be about right

Your quotes is regarding the Iraq War, which was not, at least not directly, a retaliation for the 9/11

From the first line of Wikipedia.

The War in Afghanistan (2001–present) has resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

20,000 is still a horrible amount.

But it's not 800,000

If you add the Iraq war deaths, it's another 100,000. Although I don't know how many are a result of western militarily forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraqi_civilian_casualties

[Pyromanik]

Again all pro war comments are conveniently clumping all muslims into the extremist bad guy bucket.

Islam is not inherently incompatible with modern life.

To say so is to also say that christianity is, because you're taking the testiment as law to the letter.

[winter]

Again all pro war comments are conveniently clumping all muslims into the extremist bad guy bucket.

Show me one.

[Pyromanik]

Again all pro war comments are conveniently clumping all muslims into the extremist bad guy bucket.

Show me one.

Check your privilige, before you wreck your rights.

[winter]

Again all pro war comments are conveniently clumping all muslims into the extremist bad guy bucket.

Show me one.

Check your privilige.

Check your spelling.