Should GST be scrapped?

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

Read an article about extending GST to online shopping.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11418802


I agree that we want a fair playing failed between NZ retailers and online retailers, then just scrap GST altogether, and increase Income tax to make of the difference.

Applying GST to online shopping can never work, due to the nature of the internet. Sure you could get retailers like steam, iTunes to charge GST and pass it on, but consumers can easily get around that using a VPN.

Regarding physical goods which get shipped through the border, that would just cause much more work for custom officials, and cause lots of delays waiting for consumers to pay the GST before their items can be released, it would just be a pain in the ass for everyone. For lower value items, it'll probably cost the government more to pay custom officials, then they would get back in GST.

[The Demon Lord]

Read an article about extending GST to online shopping.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11418802


I agree that we want a fair playing failed between NZ retailers and online retailers, then just scrap GST altogether, and increase Income tax to make of the difference.

Applying GST to online shopping can never work, due to the nature of the internet. Sure you could get retailers like steam, iTunes to charge GST and pass it on, but consumers can easily get around that using a VPN.

Regarding physical goods which get shipped through the border, that would just cause much more work for custom officials, and cause lots of delays waiting for consumers to pay the GST before their items can be released, it would just be a pain in the ass for everyone. For lower value items, it'll probably cost the government more to pay custom officials, then they would get back in GST.

For me, I am 100% against applying GST online - in the same way that you get to bring items through customs when you travel.

Especially since if I am going to pay GST - I expect to be covered by say - the CGA or other NZ law (which simply isn't feasible)

As for scrapping GST and moving to a French model (high income tax, low taxes on everything else) - I am not so sure it would work here - afterall, I think the top Tax bracket is rapeage enough, and I see a lot of my hard earned money being wasted, at least with GST I get some control (don't buy shit if I don't want to pay it)

[Xsannz]

^{Should GST be scraped?}

Scraped?  as in drag or pull a hard or sharp implement across (a surface or object) so as to remove dirt or other matter.

or

Scrapped discard or remove from service (a redundant, old, or inoperative object).

personally i would love to scrape some gst into my own personal accounts

[Craigor]

For me, I am 100% against applying GST online - in the same way that you get to bring items through customs when you travel.

Especially since if I am going to pay GST - I expect to be covered by say - the CGA or other NZ law (which simply isn't feasible)

As for scrapping GST and moving to a French model (high income tax, low taxes on everything else) - I am not so sure it would work here - afterall, I think the top Tax bracket is rapeage enough, and I see a lot of my hard earned money being wasted, at least with GST I get some control (don't buy shit if I don't want to pay it)

I'm with you on this, tax bracket sucks enough already


and i think this is a very good point too:

Regarding physical goods which get shipped through the border, that would just cause much more work for custom officials, and cause lots of delays waiting for consumers to pay the GST before their items can be released, it would just be a pain in the ass for everyone. For lower value items, it'll probably cost the government more to pay custom officials, then they would get back in GST.

[Retardobot]

Why should the government get money from goods purchased from another country?

John Key can fuck right off.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I'm with you on this, tax bracket sucks enough already

Yes, but my point is that all local purchases would be cheaper (fuel, food, power etc) because of no GST.
Ideally we would still have the same spending power.

However in practice I don't think it would work, it's just too much of a change.


I guess retailers will just need to adapt or go out of business. 

[Craigor]

I don't think the discount on my utility bills and food would offset the increase in the already stupid amount of income tax I pay

Mortgages aren't subject to GST so would stay the same

I generally don't buy much else tbh

I guess it depends on what the percentages would be.

[enocindustries]

I guess retailers will just need to adapt or go out of business.
[/quote]

A lot of retailers are adapting but are finding it harder and harder to compete with Internet purchases. As in consumers will buy based on price instead of quality so will pay 5 bucks for an item that would cost 30 in a shop. If it lasts, it lasts. If not they will buy another and still be saving.

It does mean tho that a lot of hard working craftsmen in nz have been put out of business tho. Seen it all happen in the last company I worked for.

[Lias]

Scrap GST, implement financial transaction tax and capital gains tax.

[Xenolightning]

Scrap GST.

Add 10% to all Income tax, allow the tax to be regained on a tax return with proof of investment. (i.e non-expenditure)

Add a 15% expenditure tax to businesses, to cover the existing GST.

It's a dick for personal investments, but covers most things.


Alternatively, FUCK OFF AND LEAVE ONLINE PURCHASES ALONE.

The postal companies get a good deal, and the gov scrapes GST there.


Maybe introduce a postal tax, for packages

[The Demon Lord]

A lot of retailers are adapting but are finding it harder and harder to compete with Internet purchases. As in consumers will buy based on price instead of quality so will pay 5 bucks for an item that would cost 30 in a shop. If it lasts, it lasts. If not they will buy another and still be saving.

It does mean tho that a lot of hard working craftsmen in nz have been put out of business tho. Seen it all happen in the last company I worked for.

One can compete on Quality - I will happily spend 300-400 on a new Pair of Dr Martens, or 200 on a pair of Teva Sport Sandals - because I know they will last and they are good quality.

However for something like a USB adapter - I can pay $15 at Dick Smith or get 3 for $5 from overseas - since it isn't a product where I am worried about the Quality (ie I view it as a disposable item) it doesn't make sense to buy in NZ.

[Xsannz]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67473404/trade-deal-involves-cut-to-gst-threshold

^ and TPP this SHIT i import stuff regularly pc and bike wise and trying to keep parcels under $400 is a cunt.. now they want to make it $200, even though often paying customs and shipping is still cheaper than here, if i can get it here..

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67473404/trade-deal-involves-cut-to-gst-threshold

^ and TPP this SHIT i import stuff regularly pc and bike wise and trying to keep parcels under $400 is a cunt.. now they want to make it $200, even though often paying customs and shipping is still cheaper than here, if i can get it here..

I don't put much trust in that article.

Inside US Trade said US negotiators had wanted a US$200 threshold on physical goods in order to safeguard the interests of US courier companies such as UPS and FedEx but faced opposition from countries, including Mexico.

How would a US$200 threshold safeguard the interests of US courier companies? If anything it would have the opposite effect, a lower threshold would sway people to buy locally made, therefore avoiding the need to use US courier companies.

I think Stuff is just grasping at straws.

[Xsannz]

internal use would use local courier companies ? NO?

since things like youshop have eaten into people use US based courier companies exorbitant International rates.

also they claim lower limit would encourage us to buy locally, even though half the shit is more expensive or not available here, and a $200 limit will not benefit our retailers since it will just encourage us ti split parcels that are being shipped and fro smaller purchases like shoes or clothing or small electronics will still be under the threshold..

so it really only pisses me off because i am regularly paying for big ticket items, and i already pay the customs duty on the difference between the allowance and the cost + gst.. if this happens it will be more $$ i have to spend which makes some items not worthwhile and since i cant get them locally its just horseshite.

I haven't had coffee yet, i have third degree burns on my hand thanks to a frying pan handle disintegrating on me. so this i my rant for the day, off to go see the doctor for my hand..

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

^ I don't really understand what this guy is saying.
 
Don't use a frypan without first drinking your morning coffee

[Xsannz]

^ I don't really understand what this guy is saying.
 
Don't use a frypan without first drinking your morning coffee

(was yesterday about lunch time actually)

If it is ok can we just start throwing feces at each other now.

Ill condense it down into a nutshell for you now I am 2 coffees and a codeine into my day.

Nz's small economy means alot of what we do have here that inst produced locally is overpriced with margins to cover the retailers, and anything else just isnt available here.

I import alot of stuff (electronics) big ticket items for motorcycles and computers that i just cant get here, and pay gst + cost difference (as per customs site) currently on anything above the customs $400 dollar mark.

reducing it to $200 will mean a bigger Gst and price differential payment which makes it less cost effective, but what worse is even if i had a local shop bring the product in for me so i am shopping locally since they are one off items they probably will get nailed by customs duty and oncharge me anyway.

in general this whole online shopping and duty charges and gst is just shithouse, and i am gettign grumpy in my old age...

[Pyromanik]

Wait, when the fuck is GST ever not a thing? Online or not?
I mean, unless the store isn't based in the country, but that's a different thing. And if the goods are over a certian amount you pay tax on it anyway on import.

No, GST shouldn't be scrapped. It's the god of all tax. Get rid of it and some fuckface will try to introduce VAT or some other bullshit excuse for a sales tax.

[Pyromanik]

In terms of buying shit from overseas and effectively having it taxed twice, I dunno.
Seems shit, seems good, seems... yeah idk.

Buy something through emails & telephone, GST? I don't think so.
Buy same thing online, GST? effectively taxed twice.

Buy a _service_ online... and ? (like outsourced development work).
Also, who applies the tax and where? Do parcel start getting intercepted at the post office and 'come down and proove to use how much it cost and pay 15% more and we'll give it to you' ?
If they open the package to check it all out isn't that some kind of violation? IDK. I guess they do that where necessary already.

It all seems a bit hard.

On the other hand we do pay, if it's over $400. So why not all the things? It should be fair.


For online shopping being unfair with overseas retailers though... the downside there is the exorbident cost of shipping. Buy in NZ pay GST and ... oh wait, fuck.

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

^ I don't understand what was said here.