Bandwidth Question

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

We have had Netflix for a couple of years now, and during that time we have been using it we our ADSL connection without any issues.

We recently upgraded to VDSL, which has given us faster download/upload, but hasn't made any noticeable difference in streaming (since it was already working pretty good before on ADSL).

However last month, I've noticed a degrade in performance during the peak time slot (6pm to 9pm). Buffering while watching stuff on Netflix etc.

Now articles like this mention there is a huge demand for streaming services (understandably), but here's what I don't understand.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11455107

The wholesale broadband provider, along with telcos, has been stunned by the rapid uptake of video streaming services, which is putting pressure on existing copper networks that provide the bulk of broadband services. The explosion of video services should boost the uptake of UFB. But with the staggered rollout, chunks of major centres, such as Auckland, are not yet complete, creating problems marketing the service.

Chorus announced yesterday it was working on improving the complex and disjointed processes for connecting to UFB, but there are still major issues ahead over the Resource Management Act and taking cable from footpaths into homes.

Pressure on existing copper networks? As I understand the 'copper' part of the network is only from your house to the street side cabinet (or in some cases the exchange), once there, the network is all fibre anyway. Why would there be any pressure on the 'copper' part of the network, where in our case, we are not using it any more data then we have been for the last two years.

Which makes me think, the problem is nothing to do with the copper, but the Telco networks which can't handle the load during peak times. And even when we do get fibre at our house (due end of this year), that unless the Telco's can improve their capacity, then I'm not going to actually see that much different between VDSL and fibre (during peak times at least).


I'd like to hear what other peoples thoughts are.

[Xsannz]

just went to fibre at home from vdsl.

here is my summary.

Snap ADSL - streaming and gaming - never an issue
Snap VDSL - Better Gaming ping and streaming never an issue.

Telecom VDSL - constant drop-off and streaming inconsistent (told too far from cabinet but worked fine for 2 + years with snap)
Telecom Fibre - 100down 50 up good ping - still havign streaming issues with netflix / lightbox  and tvnz...

figured maybe i am saturating my wirless access point with those devices ..  so added 2 more extender units each with own 100mb link back to the router by ethernet and split 3 devices to each one.

still having issues... notice during day is fine notice at night and peak times i am buffering..

FUUUU   think SM is correct it is telco and peak demand that fecks them......   also on vdsl my peak time ping would increase from 15ms to 30+ms

[Growler]

I will add something to this that has me scratching my head with streaming services.

I am on SNAP 200/20 unlimited fibre.

Netflix USA.

Samsung smart TV - episode might take 3 restarts to start streaming, sometimes first pop, sometimes more.

When the smart TV  does this, I can pretty much jump straight onto the AppleTV and the episode will start instantly.

The reverse also applies, and I can have trouble with both but get it to work on my iPad and then airplay it. The only device in my house that it works flawlessly on 100% of the time is my PC. That will always play first time, every time.

I am wondering if there is some form of a hardware 'soft spot' with some of these devices, relating to packets in/out numbers compared to the PC??

[Xsannz]

is pc wired and other devices wireless?

thats what inspired my multiple wireless points

[Growler]

Yes, but that still doesn't explain why certain devices work first time when another won't

I am setting a friends firth stick up soon, be interesting to see how that works, it's considerably more powerful than ATV, smart tv etc.

[Xsannz]

firth??  like firth drum stick??

also wireless tends to lose packets initially then get going i find if i constantly use lightbox on tv or ipad they work fine, but the initial launch get go takes a few goes / buffering etc.

when i connect my tv by lan cable rather than wireless i dont have that issue.

[Spigalau]

My understanding of how things work in the urban areas is as follows:

You have multiple high capacity feed pipes coming in to NZ (eg. Southern Cross). These are then meshed in to the Chorus backbone at a couple of key locations/exchanges. Your local cabinet is connected to the backbone by a fibre back haul. Your connection to that cabinet can be over copper (ADSL2+, VDSL, UFB, etc). Each cabinet services XXX number of local properties/connections.

If we assume XXX is say 200 connections, and also assume that each connection is a 10Mbit (1/2 ADSL2+ speeds), you get a combined max load of 2000Mbit, which may or may not be greater than the capacity of the local back haul. If the local backhaul was only gigabit, you would probably end up with a saturated link and bbbbbbuuuuuffffeeering. As more people move to streaming services, the load will increase.

You have to remember that the way that broadband connections are provisioned in NZ is/was pretty abysmal. iirc it was something along the lines of 64Kb of provisioning for each new connection (ie. 320 customers x 64Kb = 1 x 20Mbit provisioning). Whilst you may be connected at ultra speeds, reality is the pipes are old & cludged up.

Also, last week or so, there have been issues on SXC (cut see - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68739063/cable-cut-for-second-time-in-three-months) which may have added additional crap to your viewing.

[Xsannz]

possibly for netflix but the SC cut shouldnt have affected lightbox unless the servers are offshore, but backhaul yes in rangiora that would affect me since i know there is only 2 gig backhauls from there to chch

[Growler]

Sorry, meant fireTV stick, stupid autocorrect.

In Rolly I pretty much always haul ass no matter what I am doing, haven't tried shitbox and don't think I will bother

[Gutty]

growler, could you show us a speed test plz

I had this to my local host server, its back to 95/95 now but its still randomly popping up into hundreds.
Of course I am in gigatown, so in the future I guess it could be like this. 1000/500 unlimited, with snap.




As for streaming on demand, I haven't had any buffering at all since being on UFB. vdsl wasn't too bad either

[Growler]

here is me at 6:45pm, what I would call prime time. I pay for 200/20.

[Mayhem_Lee]

Yes, but that still doesn't explain why certain devices work first time when another won't

I am setting a friends firth stick up soon, be interesting to see how that works, it's considerably more powerful than ATV, smart tv etc.

What are you using to access netflix americano? VPN or DNS

[Xsannz]

we dont need vpn or dns for netflix, it was launched here

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

we dont need vpn or dns for netflix, it was launched here

You can use a vpn or dns to access the American catalogue (or UK).

I've noticed that the New Zealand catalogue has a lot of shows that are not available on the US version. So I regularly switch between the two depending on what i'm watching.

[Xsannz]

ahhh righto...  i am still a torrent pleb only just got into the netflix and lightbox stuff..

[Xenolightning]

i am still a torrent pleb

Ew.

I set up my own DNS proxy for US netflix. I don't trust the third party DNS proxy providers, they can easily do dodgy shit with HTTPS.

VPN is all good though.

Now I just need to find the effort to create an app to switch between DNS without fishing through control panel

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

I set up my own DNS proxy for hacking time!

[Growler]

Unotelly DNS. Would a VPN be more stable?

[Retardobot]

I got fucked off with Unotelly.

I cancelled my sub, and they kept sending me monthly invoices 3 months after.

Got it cleared up, and there was somehow still 31 cents owing and they kept sending me an invoice for that.

Can't wait for mah fiberbz when I move in to the new place.

[Xenolightning]

Unotelly DNS. Would a VPN be more stable?

Erm, they work differently.

VPN will hold a tunnel open between you and the remote server, and will shuffle packets in and out of that tunnel.

SmartDNS changes the endpoint of domains, the 'fake endpoint' shuffles packets from you to the real endpoint, acting as a middle man.

Both rely on the internet.
VPN is considered more secure.
VPN traffic is impossible to shape between the client and server.
SmartDNS requires VERY little setup.

Take your pick

[Mayhem_Lee]

Unotelly DNS. Would a VPN be more stable?

Erm, they work differently.

VPN will hold a tunnel open between you and the remote server, and will shuffle packets in and out of that tunnel.

SmartDNS changes the endpoint of domains, the 'fake endpoint' shuffles packets from you to the real endpoint, acting as a middle man.

Both rely on the internet.
VPN is considered more secure.
VPN traffic is impossible to shape between the client and server.
SmartDNS requires VERY little setup.

Take your pick

Waiting for XENO to offer secure dns setup for gobbies..... Have been using Unotelly and their DNS Set-up because easy in flat environment for them wifi's.

[Xenolightning]

Waiting for XENO to offer secure dns setup for gobbies..... Have been using Unotelly and their DNS Set-up because easy in flat environment for them wifi's.

I've thought about it.

I'd need to investigate decent hosted options to do this.

Mine is currently publicly available (I'm hosting a public DNS in Aus), but the proxy part is IP restricted.

I'd need to create some sort of management ui, and probably a desktop daemon, to make it truly available.

[Xsannz]

Waiting for XENO to offer secure dns setup for gobbies..... Have been using Unotelly and their DNS Set-up because easy in flat environment for them wifi's.

I've thought about it.

I'd need to investigate decent hosted options to do this.

Mine is currently publicly available (I'm hosting a public DNS in Aus), but the proxy part is IP restricted.

I'd need to create some sort of management ui, and probably a desktop daemon, to make it truly available.

stop talking and just do it.

[Xenolightning]

Waiting for XENO to offer secure dns setup for gobbies..... Have been using Unotelly and their DNS Set-up because easy in flat environment for them wifi's.

I've thought about it.

I'd need to investigate decent hosted options to do this.

Mine is currently publicly available (I'm hosting a public DNS in Aus), but the proxy part is IP restricted.

I'd need to create some sort of management ui, and probably a desktop daemon, to make it truly available.

stop talking and just do it.

You funding it?

[Xsannz]

if you do it right it will pay for itself :p